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A little help,....need a Texel number for I-20na #29023
02/04/04 01:48 PM
02/04/04 01:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
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brobru Offline OP
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brobru  Offline OP
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Hello,
1. I have been asked to provide a Texel for a stock N.American I-20
2. Apparently, the Euro sailplan is different (smaller).


thanks.

regards,

Bruce
St. Croix

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: A little help,....need a Texel number for I-20na [Re: brobru] #29024
02/04/04 03:22 PM
02/04/04 03:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 800
MI
sail6000 Offline
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sail6000  Offline
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MI

Ya mon .

Some official in the Texel rating may already have this number calculated.though don,t see it yet .
http://www.texelrating.knwv.nl/numdet1.html

The I -20 NA version mainsail is 15 sq ft larger ,having a larger sq top main but same foot measurement ,-the area is along the roach mostly higher up, the sq top being about a ft larger .---not an advantage in higher wind strength when already overpowered as you typically sail in the Islands.

Texel rating would need to recalc. the rated sail area then enter this in place of the smaller EU version in the base power formula to arrive at a slightly faster theoretical rating number as result of larger sail area.
The original Texel rating intended to use 2 windspeeds ,but for simplicity did not , it instead makes adjustments periodically,as per recent change reducing the final factor in the equation which theoretically would reflect different boat finishes in higher wind speeds more accurately ,all being closer in total elapsed time as result

In Texel all Formula classes that use different jib sizes and spin sizes to various crew weight are all rated the same regardless of these varied jib and spin sizes .
see Texel notes on Formula classes -
The theory being the F-class rules that factor crew weight into the equation equalize them out ,
This may be best for the na version I-20 as well in higher winds particularly

The I-20 is a Formula 20 as raced in EU

ADDED problem -the na version also weighs 390 LBs rather than EU i-Formula 20 CLASS WEIGHT OF 418 lB
so a revised calc in Texel is needed there as well with revised rated weight-

For the NA Formula 20 proposed rules based on this popular I-20 version as compensation as per other Formula classes any heavier 20 ft cat of 418 Lbs or more would be allowed a larger spin area of +30 sq ft or more ,based on the 270 sq ft standard size. The standard 390 Lb I-20 would use a 270 or less sq ft spin ,and the EU version or any F-20 cat that weighed 418 Lbs or more would be allowed a 300 sq ft spin or less . The F-20s are already so overpowered with sail area that crew weight is a lesser factor and instead boat weight is used and is the variable factor rather than crew.
Larger crew often have the advantage on 20s.

One International combination Catamaran Rating sytem anyone?? Portmouth Texel and ISAF -combo-
With the integration of numerous international cat classes -A-Class -Formula Classes etc ,-and the desire for good class racing groups -it is time for a more complete universal integral measurement based rating system
The real goal of a design-measurement rating system is to encourage larger class racing and Formula groups ,-equal group boats based on similar length weight beam and sail area , over time better race organization and a target for new boat designs in already established larger race groups .

This circumstance is a good example of how we could rethink and try to connect better with catamaran sailors internationally.Nations Continentals -Worlds Olympics and major special events with international competition are great fun .

hope that is helpfull
end sailing rant for the day

Last edited by sail6000; 02/04/04 03:56 PM.
Re: A little helpful information [Re: brobru] #29025
02/05/04 04:28 AM
02/05/04 04:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 390
samevans Offline
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samevans  Offline
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Posts: 390
Go to this site http://texelrating.knwv.nl/eerste.html
Download "Texel Rule and drawings" http://texelrating.knwv.nl/descript.html to explain how to make the measurements.
Download an excel spreadsheet called "Easy Calculator" http://texelrating.knwv.nl/calculation%20form.xls
Fill in the blanks and it will give you a Texel rating.

Go to "Download" http://texelrating.knwv.nl/download.html to get a copy of the spreadsheet with all of the 2003 boats - trtotal.xls.

Re: A little helpful information [Re: samevans] #29026
02/05/04 08:46 PM
02/05/04 08:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
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brobru Offline OP
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brobru  Offline OP
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Hello All,

Wow, what great info!

This goes to both of you.

Anyone out there have the spec avaialbe?.......can plug in the data,..and get me a number?

We have the St. Croix International Regatta next weekend,...and a P19MX ( the St. Thomas P19MX's appeared to have raced for years under a wrong Texel number,.....hmmmm,..imagine that). FYI, the calc # is 99 for non-spin ( compared to a 103 with non MX sailplan)

...and now it seems that the US Virgin Islands I-20's with North American sailplans had also ( for years, ...again,...imagine that,...hmmm) have sailed at the Euro Number of 100 ( non-spin)

Anyone can do a handy calc # on the stock USA I-20?

Thanking you in advance.

Bruce
St. Croix

Re: A little helpful information [Re: brobru] #29027
02/05/04 10:13 PM
02/05/04 10:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 160
Connecticut
Eric Anderson Offline
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Eric Anderson  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 160
Connecticut
Bruce,
The only I 20 NA rig that I know of that was officialy measured was in curacao in 2001.The Measurer was Peter Vink, I think you can get him through Performance Sails in Holland.
The long and the short of it was that the US boats rated 2 points faster under Texel. They should be racing at 98.

Eric Anderson


We tracked this story down last year. [Re: Eric Anderson] #29028
02/06/04 06:54 AM
02/06/04 06:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


We tracked this story down last year.

The US I-20 wa never officially measured under Texel and we spoke to Peter, he indicated that he has measured the sailarea and that was it. Many claim that the US I-20 is lighter as well. Peter has no paperform or recollection of the actual area measured. There is no use contacting him over it.

Sorry.

Anybody willing to perform the measurements on his honour ?

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: We tracked this story down last year. [Re: Wouter] #29029
02/06/04 08:26 AM
02/06/04 08:26 AM
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Posts: 552
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brobru Offline OP
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Againthanls to all

1. I need some I-20 USA sailor/team, to give me thier sail dimensions please,...we have the formula all set to go.

2. I would also like someone,...maybe a dealer ( Cat House,..Rick Bliss,..?) to provide a real weight ( out of the box)
Again,, the formula is set,..we need there two points of data.
A Texel committee person will do the calc...

.. it would be nice to have this number.

Thanks again!

Bruce
St. Croix

Re: mfg specs. [Re: brobru] #29030
02/06/04 11:59 AM
02/06/04 11:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 800
MI
sail6000 Offline
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sail6000  Offline
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Posts: 800
MI

Here is a link to the Performance and Inter 20 specs
the weight listed is 390 Lb
the sail ar, is not listed ,
http://www.boatshow.com/Inter20.html
best to contact them directly for exact current sail specs
there are different jibs now also -

Re: mfg specs. [Re: sail6000] #29031
02/06/04 12:59 PM
02/06/04 12:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
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brobru Offline OP
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brobru  Offline OP
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Posts: 552
Thanks,

True,...the self tacking jib is smaller than the stock non-tacking jib..

..the plot thickens..

regards,

Bruce


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