At the Dallas Regatta this past weekend (Great regatta- You should have been there! Thanks Hobie Fleet 23!), which was also the Area F Alter cup qualifier, one of the 20 foot spinnaker boat skippers indicated he felt he had unfairly lost the regatta because one of the six races turned into a "reach" which he indicated did not test sailing ability AND it was unfair since "The Portsmouth Numbers (used to handicap all the boats in the race) are based strictly on upwind/downwind courses."
<br>ALL the races were strictly A-C combinations in this particular regatta, however it was my understanding that the PN's are based on actual race results turned in to the PN Committee. I know personally many of the results turned in for me (and my boat for instance and I would assume also for many other boats) DID include courses which incorporated a "B", or reaching mark, as part of the course.
<br>Is it true the PN Committee ignores these results and only uses results of races where the course is strictly A-C (ie. upwind-downwind) or do they in fact include ALL the "bouy" race results (and therefore some reaching legs) in their calculations?
<br>If the former, then he would seem to have a valid point; but if the later, then the fact this was the ONLY reaching in the entire regatta would seem to largely negate his argument to me.
<br>
<br>However, this whole issue brings up the difficulty of rating spinnaker-equipped boats against non-spinnaker boats, especially unirigs, since they have decidely different characteristics on one point of sail, downwind, compared to each other (and to sloop only boats). This is somewhat addressed under the "Distance racing" modification numbers which "ding" these sails additionally vs their number around the bouys.
<br>Not wanting to complicate PN's, but if people are going to make an issue of this how would this be best addressed?
<br>Looking for answers to the PN question, opinions and thoughts on this subject.
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<br>Sail on!
<br>
<br>Kirt Simmons<br><br>Kirt Simmons
<br>Taipan #159, "A" cat US 48

Hi Kirt,
<br>
<br>The many results that I have submitted do not distinquish between different courses selected around the bouy's. I do however indicate distance races when I submit results from such an event. I would think that reaching would occur more often in distance races, where the course is generally fixed, irrespective of wind direction. As opposed to a course which is set with respect to the wind direction. On the Portsmouth Committee, when we review a particular set of distance results (it is usually for research, to support or contradict a point of concern), we usually get a wind strength and general indication of direction. Around the bouy results usually only include a windstrength. If there is an indication the results are somehow annomalous,, and might lead to false conclusions, they would not likely be considered (ie: tossed).
<br>
<br>But since windward leeward racing has become more prevelent in the last 10 years, it does stand to reason that the ratings would reflect that trend.
<br>
<br>Frankly, I would like to see a little more reaching included in bouy racing. I don't buy the "its just a parade" arguement. If can push your boat harder than the next team on the reach you will gain ground,,, screwup and your competition will pass you. The ability to generate maximum boat speed on the reach is, for some, becoming a lost or unpracticed skill. Reaching is arguably less tactical, however white knuckle boatspeed is an exciting and very real aspect of cat racing too. Personally,,, I attack other boats and/or defend my air, similar to other encounters on the course. Things just happen faster and the leg is over quicker, given the more direct route to B mark.
<br>
<br>Question,,, what were the wind conditions during that reaching leg,,,, why could the 20 footer not save his time against the other boats ?? Was it more a matter of him being disadvantaged by the shift ??<br><br>Keep at least one hull in the air !!!
<br>Alan Maguire

Hi Kirt,
<br>
<br>The many results that I have submitted do not distinquish between different courses selected around the bouy's. I do however indicate distance races when I submit results from such an event. I would think that reaching would occur more often in distance races, where the course is generally fixed, irrespective of wind direction. As opposed to a course which is set with respect to the wind direction. On the Portsmouth Committee, when we review a particular set of distance results (it is usually for research, to support or contradict a point of concern), we usually get a wind strength and general indication of direction. Around the bouy results usually only include a windstrength. If there is an indication the results are somehow annomalous,, and might lead to false conclusions, they would not likely be considered (ie: tossed).
<br>
<br>But since windward leeward racing has become more prevelent in the last 10 years, it does stand to reason that the ratings would reflect that trend.
<br>
<br>Frankly, I would like to see a little more reaching included in bouy racing. I don't buy the "its just a parade" arguement. If can push your boat harder than the next team on the reach you will gain ground,,, screwup and your competition will pass you. The ability to generate maximum boat speed on the reach is, for some, becoming a lost or unpracticed skill. Reaching is arguably less tactical, however white knuckle boatspeed is an exciting and very real aspect of cat racing too. Personally,,, I attack other boats and/or defend my air, similar to other encounters on the course. Things just happen faster and the leg is over quicker, given the more direct route to B mark.
<br>
<br>Question,,, what were the wind conditions during that reaching leg,,,, why could the 20 footer not save his time against the other boats ?? Was it more a matter of him being disadvantaged by the shift ??
<br><br><br>Keep at least one hull in the air !!!
<br>Alan Maguire

Alan, It was a course 2 and during the race, the wind shifted so that it was straight shot from A to C and C to A. I watched the whole thing. I was kind of lucky. I was forced to port tack on the start along with about 4-6 other boats including the Taipan which Kirt was sailing and the rest of the fleet went to left side of the course. The wind started to shift to the right and we were able to reach the layline for A with only 1 short tack. For rest of the race it was just a drag race from A to C marks.
<br>Congratulations to Kirt for winning the Cup.
<br>
<br>Dale
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<br><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by dmeador on 10/16/01 10:11 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

I think we should go back to having a reaching leg. My current crew sailed with me almost a year before we had our first good reaching leg in a race.
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<br>I never found the reaching to be a parade. There is always washing your crew off the boat, pitchpoling or sailing too high or low of a course .
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<br>A reach leg also gives some of the older boats a chance to show their stuff. Like a N6.0 when they are just double trapped or a Tornado when the I20's are traveled out to the footstraps.
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<br>If you want to reach come to GBCC on Nov 3&4. We will be sharing a starting line and leeward mark with the Tornado NA's. To help seperate the boats, the last plan I heard, was to run the GBCC boats on a ABC course. The Tornado's will always run AC<br><br>

I'll be there...promise wind? I don't care which way it blows, or if it's light or heavy, or hot or cold. cya in a couple weeks!
<br>
<br><br><br>Andrew Tatton
<br>Nacra 5.5u #417 +chute

There will be a dinner at HYC Friday night that is part of the Tornado NA's. It's extra and you need to email me if you want to attend.<br><br>

Hi Kirt, The short answer to your question is "NO". Portsmouth has been around a long time and Windward/Leeward courses have been gaining in popularity only relatively recently. In fact, windward/leeward courses favor spinnaker boats under Portsmouth because those ratings reflect years of results in triangular courses and a spinnaker equipped boat goes downwind in most conditions much faster than the ratings difference. That is why the long distance spinnaker rating gets that extra hit you mentioned.
<br>
<br>Out of curiosity, did the race results support the contention of the 20 foot racer?<br><br>

Mike-
<br>Good to hear from you! Not sure what contention you mean-
<br>As Dale mentioned there was ONE race that turned into a "straight shot" after the first mark. I was to the left of the fleet and noted better wind to the right so went right w/ several other boats and that's really where that race was won. It was only myself and some of the Miracles that went that direction and the Inter went left and finished behind all of us boat for boat. Not sure if he could have flown his chute on the "downwind" reach, it was fairly light air so should have helped if he could.
<br>I have not seen the results (would love to!) myself but apparently I and the spi boat were first or second in almost all the races. Some of the races Saturday were fairly gusty and I don't know if they used their spi in every race, this would make a difference I assume although wind-corrected numbers should deal with?
<br>Anyway, I haven't heard any more about it so who knows??
<br>
<br>Kirt<br><br>Kirt Simmons
<br>Taipan #159, "A" cat US 48