| Re: Long-chain polymers
[Re: Mary]
#31852 03/30/04 01:56 AM 03/30/04 01:56 AM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay Luiz
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Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay | Mary
The prohibition to use oil or other substances to reduce friction is VERY old. It was there in 1973 when I first read the rules and I think it might have been there when the rules where first written, for the trick itself is even older.
The oldest book I read about it was from Jules Verne (XIX century) - a boat's captain ordered to dump oil to calm the waves and facilitate the entry through the reefs.
Cheers,
Luiz
| | | Re: Long-chain polymers
[Re: Kevin Cook]
#31855 03/30/04 09:16 AM 03/30/04 09:16 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary OP
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | Here is why I asked the question: I read a long time ago that the reason air pollution from diesel fumes is more dangerous than from gasoline fumes is that diesel spews out long-chain polymers into the air.
Now we have a motorhome with a rear-engine diesel, so the exhaust fumes go directly back onto our boat hulls whenever we are traveling, making the hulls all black and yucky. Our first instinct was to wash them, but another instinct is to avoid unnecessary work, so I came up with the idea that we should not wash the hulls because maybe they have long-chain polymers all over them, making them ugly but fast.
What do you think? Is that possible? If so, maybe our boats are illegal.
(P.S. Before somebody suggests it, yes, we do plan to run the exhaust pipe up to the top of the motorhome so our boats don't keep turning black.) | | | Re: Long-chain polymers
[Re: Mary]
#31856 03/30/04 12:52 PM 03/30/04 12:52 PM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay Luiz
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Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay | Your boats are not illegal nor faster - just dirty Spread a common detergent in the bows before hitting the road. The fumes will adhere to the detergent but the detergent is easy to remove - with the smoke particles.
Luiz
| | | Re: Long-chain polymers
[Re: Luiz]
#31857 03/30/04 01:06 PM 03/30/04 01:06 PM |
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 805 Gainesville, FL 32607 USA dacarls
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Posts: 805 Gainesville, FL 32607 USA | One of the best for this purpose is polyvinyl alcohol. When injected into the water right at the stem of the boat it reduces thickness of the attached boundary layer and therefore reduces drag. But maybe cats go too fast for this to spread out and be effective.
Dacarls: A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16 "Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
| | | Re: Long-chain polymers
[Re: Mary]
#31859 03/30/04 05:50 PM 03/30/04 05:50 PM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay Luiz
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Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay | Mary,
Rick won due to his own merits. Lubricating the hull does not help significantly.
As Bill wrote, the lubrication is effective to reduce friction between water layers, not between the hull and the water.
Cheers,
Luiz
| | | Re: Long-chain polymers
[Re: BRoberts]
#31861 03/30/04 08:47 PM 03/30/04 08:47 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
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Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | Go back to your college chemistry text books. Long chain hydrocarbons are long chain polymers. Take, for instance, polyethylene: A long chain polymer / hydrocarbon. Which, coincidentally is what your Waves are made of. What is coming out of the tailpipe of the motorhome is neither. It's soot. Mostly carbon. Which happens to stick very well to the waxy polyethelyne hull surface of the Wave. Polyvinyl alcohol (mentioned earlier) is another long-chain hydrocarbon that when cross-linked with borate ions, forms something familiar to most kids - Slime. {whoa - somebody didn't like me stealing their bandwidth}
Last edited by mbounds; 03/30/04 10:11 PM.
| | | Re: Long-chain polymers
[Re: mbounds]
#31862 03/30/04 09:32 PM 03/30/04 09:32 PM |
Joined: Sep 2003 Posts: 264 Long Island, NY gregP19
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Posts: 264 Long Island, NY | You have a good point with all the rhetoric flying around. Chemically speaking- a "polymer" is merely a repetitive unit of the same molecular structure comprising a large molecule. Their chemical stability is both a blessing and a curse-environmentally speaking. The word "polymer" has been overused in so many popular products that its' intended meaning has been blurred. I think it is generally viewed as our scientific progress in making things lighter and more resilient. I'd still opt to clean the soot from my tailpipe off my boat and start on the favored side of the line.
G Gove
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| | | Re: Long-chain polymers
[Re: mbounds]
#31863 03/30/04 10:48 PM 03/30/04 10:48 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | you know this means that Rick will no longer have an excuse as to why he (or..er...Mary ) is not washing the boats.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Long-chain polymers
[Re: Jake]
#31864 03/31/04 05:59 AM 03/31/04 05:59 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary OP
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | You guys are all so incredibly knowledgeable!
I am interested in what Luiz said about about protecting the hulls from soot by putting detergent on the bows when traveling. But I think it would take more than just the bows.
SO, if I smear Joy dish detergent all over the boats before we hit the road, will all the black stuff wash off when we get to our destination?
AND if there is no hose available to wash it off on land (as there usually is not), is it legal to put the boat in the water with Joy all over it, getting detergent and suds into the water?
AND will having Joy all over your hulls make your boat faster, at least until it all washes off? | | | Re: Long-chain polymers (or whatever)
[Re: Mary]
#31865 03/31/04 09:23 AM 03/31/04 09:23 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 975 South Louisiana, USA Clayton
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Posts: 975 South Louisiana, USA | Mary, Putting liquid soap to ease in cleaning soot is a proven thing. We have been showing our Boy Scouts how to do that for years when camping out. When cooking on a campfire put some soap onto the bottom of the pots (it dosen't take much) and the cleanup is much easier. That also works on pots used on a propane burner (down here we use that to cook crawfish). You would think the soap burns off, and some does but it leaves a film between the soot and the metal. Just FYI. Clayton | | | Re: Long-chain polymers
[Re: Mary]
#31866 03/31/04 10:15 AM 03/31/04 10:15 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | yeah - except that having liquid soap smeared all over your hulls during a 1200 mile trip will attract every piece of dirt, dust, and debris to your hulls. I can only imagine what they would look like when you finally arrive. Leave it on long enough (i.e. the trip home and leave the boat stored) and the liquid soap, while still water soluble, turns to a thick glue like substance. We build machinery in production plants that run soap and dried liquid soap is a major problem with moving components.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Long-chain polymers
[Re: Jake]
#31867 03/31/04 12:49 PM 03/31/04 12:49 PM |
Joined: Apr 2002 Posts: 805 Gainesville, FL 32607 USA dacarls
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Posts: 805 Gainesville, FL 32607 USA | That's why I said- polyvinyl alcohol. It is a masking agent like masking tape when I make beautiful new carbon fiber rudders! But when sprayed it dries to a thin dry green skin on fiberglass-- and washes off quickly. No gumming up. Rick White? Wash a boat? Heaven forbid---When did that ever happen?
Dacarls: A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16 "Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
| | | Re: Long-chain polymers
[Re: dacarls]
#31868 03/31/04 01:10 PM 03/31/04 01:10 PM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary OP
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | Where do you get this spray-on polyvinyl alcohol? And as far as Rick not washing hulls, why do you think he married me? He knew that I had been trained by my father, from an early age, to wash the bottom of the boat every time before racing. When we had our Lightning, which was kept in the water all season, we had to use a long-handled scrub brush to clean the bottom every Sunday before racing. When we got our Shark catamaran and dry-sailed it, we had to wash the hulls with detergent every Sunday. With both boats we pretty much always won, so I figured it had something to do with washing the hulls. Maybe I was just being brainwashed, by my father and later by Rick, but I have always been convinced that washing helps. I have washed more hulls in my day than probably any living sailor. | | |
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