| Re: What you ppl think about this?
[Re: MauganN20]
#34479 06/17/04 03:03 PM 06/17/04 03:03 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | I'm missing something - what are you talking about?
Jake Kohl | | | Re: What you ppl think about this?
[Re: MauganN20]
#34483 06/17/04 04:08 PM 06/17/04 04:08 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | I can be 'thick' sometimes but I just don't get it. There are three article links on the page you provided (that I see anyway) and I can't find any reference.
"Alberg 30 group celebrates 40th anniversary of a classic" "Latest Sjambok ready for Newport-to-Bermuda Race" "Gary Mentesana captures Irey Regatta"
Which one is it?
Jake Kohl | | | Re: What you ppl think about this?
[Re: MauganN20]
#34486 06/17/04 04:43 PM 06/17/04 04:43 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
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Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA | It's your browsers cache and it's settings.
Dave
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: What you ppl think about this?
[Re: MauganN20]
#34487 06/17/04 06:20 PM 06/17/04 06:20 PM |
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 248 Colorado SteveT
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Posts: 248 Colorado | I'd say there were more than a few holes in this story. Who were the "men" on the "20-foot catamaran?" What was their experience level? What kind of boat was it? Who owned the boat? Which of the sailors was the skipper? Where is a quote from the race organizer regarding the race and it's safety record? Where is a quote from the cat sailors telling their side of the story? What really caused the capsize, did something break, was it a big puff, a wave, a rouge blue crab biting someone on the toe? I've been a journalist for more than a decade and I can't believe the editor didn't send this one back to the reporter for more research.
H-20 #896
| | | Re: What you ppl think about this?
[Re: DSievert]
#34489 06/18/04 04:12 AM 06/18/04 04:12 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 612 Cape Town, South Africa Steve_Kwiksilver
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Posts: 612 Cape Town, South Africa | What can we learn from this ?
1) People will sensationalise the event to make a story about it. 2) Catamarans DO capsize. The issue of crew separation is a serious one. It prevents the crew who is still with the boat from being able to right it, and the other crew who is swimming may not be able to catch up to the boat, or may be unable to do so due to concussion. This has happened many times, sometimes with fairly serious consequences. This occurred in the Malawi 500, a race from South to North on Lake Malawi. It can get pretty nasty even on the lake, some 700km long body of water. An I-20 skipper was separated from the boat leaving his son on the boat, who was unable to right the boat, and the skipper had to wait until after dark before using his flares. It took them a good few hours to locate him, after 9pm I believe. He was less than 500 metres from the boat. The good news is that they did find him, and the water wasn`t so cold, or hypothermia could have become an issue.
So how to prevent this ? I read a post a while ago on the subject of tethering yourself to the boat by running the mainsheet through a climbing caribener, but I think that could become dangerous in some instances, like being trapped under the boat. Perhaps a Quick-release caribener would work, such as those used in paragliding. I`ve been separated from my boat sailing solo, and had to swim like mad to just manage to catch the tip of the mast, and could barely hang on, the trampoline makes quite an effective sail. If I`d missed the mast the boat would have been gone, it was going much faster than I could swim.
On the first point, I`m going to assume the following : - The race organisers would have required the necessary safety equipment to be carried by all competitors. - The competitors concerned did have those, ie flares etc. - They had not yet reached the situation where either of them believed they required the use of them, or they would have used them. - A passing yacht / powerboat saw them & offered assistance, which, given the circumstances, was fortunate since a crew member was injured, and the skipper may not have been able to catch up to the boat, in which case the crew would probably have used his flares, so the situation could have become serious.
We need to accept that our sport does carry some risks, and come up with ways to minimise those risks if possible, We wear PDF`s, carry flares etc, sometimes we could do more to prevent a situatuion, but until we become aware of the potential of danger, we don`t think of these things. Anyone else have any comment on how to prevent crew separation, please advise ?
Cheers Steve | | | Re: What you ppl think about this?
[Re: SteveT]
#34490 06/18/04 07:03 AM 06/18/04 07:03 AM |
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 324 South Florida SOMA
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Posts: 324 South Florida | Steve,
Isn't this how most articles are written? Go for sensation first, and then follow up with the facts later (if necessary)? I guess if they had written this based on all the facts then they wouldn't have been able to use such an eye catching headline. Am I the only one that doesn't believe anything I read in the papers or see in the news?
Fred F
(ex Hobie 18)
| | | Re: What you ppl think about this?
[Re: Steve_Kwiksilver]
#34494 06/18/04 10:35 AM 06/18/04 10:35 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | On the first point, I`m going to assume the following : - The race organisers would have required the necessary safety equipment to be carried by all competitors. True: see www.sailcrac.com for the NOR with the required gear. We are always open to suggestions. Please remember... this gear is a race requirement not saftey gear. (The coast guard specifies those requirments) We could required a dancing hula girl statue on the spin pole for eligiblity! Skippers assume all responsiblity for sailing and or continuing to race. - The competitors concerned did have those, ie flares etc. True! - They had not yet reached the situation where either of them believed they required the use of them, or they would have used them. True! - A passing yacht / powerboat saw them & offered assistance, which, given the circumstances, was fortunate since a crew member was injured, and the skipper may not have been able to catch up to the boat, in which case the crew would probably have used his flares, so the situation could have become serious. True! We need to accept that our sport does carry some risks, and come up with ways to minimise those risks if possible, We wear PDF`s, carry flares etc, sometimes we could do more to prevent a situatuion, but until we become aware of the potential of danger, we don`t think of these things. Well said! Anyone else have any comment on how to prevent crew separation, please advise ? Bill's drogue chute solution sounds like a very good idea.... pulling the spin out would have worked as well in this situation. Without the freak accident resulting in injury. ....this situation would have been no big deal for these sailors. Note: We have had instances when sailors did not carry the required gear and a sailor was seperated from the boat. In that case, another racing cat rescued the skipper and returned him to his boat. The skipper was DSQ'ed from the race and suffered no end of crap about his poor judgment. We have had sailors out at night and one launched a flare generating a coast guard response for a non emergency. This was a another case of poor judgment and we now review the Coast Guard rules before the race. Mark Schneider PRO, C100 2003.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: What you ppl think about this?
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#34495 06/18/04 01:28 PM 06/18/04 01:28 PM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 190 Long Island, NY Steven Bellavia
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Posts: 190 Long Island, NY | This is a quote from the article: "Most boating accidents occur due to poor judgment," said Owings, a no-nonsense sort. "For those guys to be out racing a 20-foot catamaran in those conditions was ridiculous. Thank goodness they'll both live to sail again."
and this is another quote from the same article: "Owings, an 84-year-old farmer...was headed for a Singles on Sailboats rendezvous"
To me it seems even more ridiculous that an 84-year-old farmer was headed for a Singles On Sailboats rendezvous.
but that's just my opinion...
Steve
.
| | | Re: What you ppl think about this?
[Re: SOMA]
#34496 06/18/04 02:06 PM 06/18/04 02:06 PM |
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 248 Colorado SteveT
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Posts: 248 Colorado | this how most articles are written? Go for sensation first, and then follow up with the facts later (if necessary)? There are some publications that report stories this way and they give ethical journalists a black eye. In every profession there are some who are too lazy or too incompetent to do a good job and thereby make it tougher for true professionals. That's not to say that mistakes aren't made by good reporters. Even the best journalists screw up, particularly when working under deadline pressures, but this story is a joke and so obviously lopsided that even the most gullible reader must be skeptical. Most glaring is a the lack of quotes from the cat sailors. I still don't know who these guys are or what their story is. It's fair to be cynical when reading newspapers, watching TV news, or particularly when reading internet news. The glut of media outlets has made competition fierce, pushing breaking news outlets to get the story published fast, but quality newspapers and magazines remain one of the most thorough and accurate news sources.
H-20 #896
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