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F-18HT'S IN NEWPORT (race report) #35414
07/13/04 12:01 PM
07/13/04 12:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 395
LA
Acat230 Offline OP
enthusiast
Acat230  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 395
LA
Here is our class's "official" race report on this event to complement Hunt Stookey's comments already posted.

The recent F-18HT event in Newport, RI at the VOLKSWAGON/SAIL NEWPORT regatta was a huge success. Eleven enthusiastic teams raced eight races over two days in light to moderate conditions. The racing was extremely close with the top position being determined by throwout.

The evolution of the class continues. This is a development class. All competitors in the US are still racing the Bimare Javelin 2 platform. Last year, nearly everyone was using the stock Bimare mainsail and a Smyth spinnaker. At this regatta, the top competitors were using either an Ullman or Ashby mainsail. In addition, other sailmakers like Irwin and Tony Arends (Quantum) have made sails for the boats that are currently being tested. Spinnakers are now being hoisted higher and further forward resulting in a higher aspect chute that improves the downwind helm of the boat, stability, visibility, and speed. Two competitors have changed out the stock rudders with those used on the Marstrom M-20 and they believe this change certainly improves the downspeed handling of the boat and may contribute to better top end speed. Critics of the class will argue that it is not healthy to have an “arms race” but everyone in the class seems committed to finding the fastest rig/platform setup and sail combinations. This continued development should lead to a stable class structure married to sensible evolution as demonstrated by the A-class.

Back to the Newport regatta, over 800 sailors participated. The classes included Lasers, Laser Radials, J-24, J-22, J-105, Farr 40, 110, Jet 14, 420, Etchells 30, Freedom 20, and 12 meters (yes there were at least eight 12 meters including Freedom, Courageous, Heritage, Weatherly, Columbia, and others, quite a sight). The sponsorship by Volkswagon allowed the competitors to enjoy meals on Friday and Saturday night and Sunday afternoon at the awards banquet. Plenty of Heineken and Amstel Light beer was on tap along with live music on Saturday night. It was a real bonus to expose the class to the dinghy and keelboat classes as all of the comments were extremely positive.

On to the race report, after a 45 minute delay to allow a sea breeze to develop, five races were sailed on Saturday in 8-12 knots of breeze. Peter Johnstone and 2000 Olympics 470 Silver Medalist Bob Merrick set the pace winning the first three races battling closely with Bob Hodges and WF Oliver and Chris Brown and his teammate Ian (ex-International 14 sailor). Bob/WF won the next two races and were able to end up tied in points with Peter/Bob when Chris/Ian took a second in the last race securing a solid third place position.


On Sunday, three races were sailed in a dying northerly that was tricky sailing. Most of the pressure seemed to be to the left in the first two races but stabs of shift and pressure were coming in from the right as the day progressed. The bar was raised higher on Sunday with 1996 Olympian (470) Kris Stookey and her teammate husband Hunt back out on the water after a broken rudder pintle forced their retirement early on Saturday. In the first race, Peter/Bob hit the left side further than anyone else and had a substantial lead at the first weather mark. They dropped to third on the second beat but then capitalized on a mark rounding mistake by the lead boats on the last beat to come back and win the race. In the second race, Bob/WF battled Kris/Hunt for the lead with Kris and Hunt taking the race with excellent downwind speed on the finishing leg with Peter/Bob in third. In the third race, most of the fleet went left but Bob/WF thought the right looked better and made it work to hold on for first. The last race looked like it would be a showdown with once again a tie in overall points between Bob/WF and Peter/Bob. Bob/WF got off the line clean heading to the right while Peter/Bob were forced to the left. It was obvious the dying northerly was going to eventually switch to the southeasterly but there was still enough on the left to give Peter/Bob a big lead at the weather mark. The boats that went right got caught in the “vacuum” between the northerly and the southeasterly. The race committee decided at this point to abandon the race and call it a day. Bob/WF won the series by a point over the “Gunboat” team of Peter/Bob with Chris/Ian in a well deserved third place.

Thanks go to SAIL NEWPORT and their race committee and regatta staff for a job very well done on running this event.

Bob Hodges
F-18HT USA 3



-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: F-18HT'S IN NEWPORT (race report) [Re: Acat230] #35415
07/13/04 04:01 PM
07/13/04 04:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
I will definately get flamed for this but so be it :

By the way no bad comments from me about getting to YC events and showing of the Cats.

However :

There is still an attitude that you guys are breaking new ground with your development. This while several classes have went ahead of you.

To be trend setters you'll need to be a bit more creative yourself.

Examples :

>>The evolution of the class continues. This is a development class.

So you keep telling us.

>>All competitors in the US are still racing the Bimare Javelin 2 platform.

Proofs my point to begin with.

>>Last year, nearly everyone was using the stock Bimare mainsail and a Smyth spinnaker. At this regatta, the top competitors were using either an Ullman or Ashby mainsail.

So which two classes were using Ashby sails in the US before you guys ? And the same regarding Ullmans sails. Besides I don't know many other classes allow sails to be sourced from anyone. Some development guys at best you are middle of the pack.


>>Spinnakers are now being hoisted higher and further forward resulting in a higher aspect chute that improves the downwind helm of the boat, stability, visibility, and speed.

Like we didn't already know this from other classes. Wasn't your hoist height a little less than the F18's ? 'Bout time you moved it up.


>>Two competitors have changed out the stock rudders with those used on the Marstrom M-20

Changing rudder setup by gear comming of other designs. Well, if you had designed your own new and superior setup then maybe you could call that development work. Janking it off the M20 and then walking tall with the Marstrom feathers stuck in you butt is not really something that will impress the REAL development guys in say the Moth class or A-cat class or even the F18 class. Even the last developped their rudder system into a good working one about 6 years ago.


>>Critics of the class will argue that it is not healthy to have an “arms race” but everyone in the class seems committed to finding the fastest rig/platform setup and sail combinations.

Yep, so again no different than many other classes. Hell, what do you think F18 crews are doing ? Finding the slowest rig/platform/sail combo's ?


>>This continued development should lead to a stable class structure married to sensible evolution as demonstrated by the A-class.

Yeah ! I'm sure the A-cat guys are anxious to find out about the next go fast trick being developped in the F18 HT class.

Maybe we'll see the A-cats sourcing sails from Ashby in the future ? (Gee, they have already done that several years now)
Or maybe they will be fitting M20 rudderstock to their boats ? (They have superior custom made stocks already, darn)
Else the F18 , F20 and Tornado classes will use higher spi gates as a result of this F18HT development ! (Their spi gates were already higher, so no luck there.)


I really like to see some cool stuff happening overthere with you guys but, with all the teasing and sarcasme aside, you've got to do better than sourcing some sails of Ashby, ripping the stocks of Marstrom or correcting on old mistake in your class rules.

If you want to be a development class than you must really go out there and try something new. Foils, planing hulls, or wave piercer hulls that WORK. Hell even THAT has now been introduced in the rival F18 class with succes before you are getting to it. Or at least the Capricorn F18 is making an impression now. Otherwise you are just a convenional catamaran class JUST like the rest of us.

Again no bad words about you growing cat participation, just about the grandized self image.

Have you decided on the longer pole length yet ? Your current one is the shortest of the line-up F16, F18, F20, Tornado. Although it must be said that the F16 appears to not need the full length pole so that a longer pole may not help you very much.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 07/13/04 04:07 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: F-18HT'S IN NEWPORT (race report) [Re: Wouter] #35416
07/13/04 04:35 PM
07/13/04 04:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 395
LA
Acat230 Offline OP
enthusiast
Acat230  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 395
LA
Wouter,

Your response is so out of touch with the point of the race report that it is not even worth responding to your post. You really need to get a life and start sailing on the water.

Respectfully,

Bob Hodges

Re: F-18HT'S IN NEWPORT (race report) [Re: Acat230] #35417
07/13/04 05:41 PM
07/13/04 05:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Bob,

Why don't you read your own post one more time:

I'll give you the part of your post that I reacted to :

"The evolution of the class continues. This is a development class. All competitors in the US are still racing the Bimare Javelin 2 platform. Last year, nearly everyone was using the stock Bimare mainsail and a Smyth spinnaker. At this regatta, the top competitors were using either an Ullman or Ashby mainsail. In addition, other sailmakers like Irwin and Tony Arends (Quantum) have made sails for the boats that are currently being tested. Spinnakers are now being hoisted higher and further forward resulting in a higher aspect chute that improves the downwind helm of the boat, stability, visibility, and speed. Two competitors have changed out the stock rudders with those used on the Marstrom M-20 and they believe this change certainly improves the downspeed handling of the boat and may contribute to better top end speed. Critics of the class will argue that it is not healthy to have an “arms race” but everyone in the class seems committed to finding the fastest rig/platform setup and sail combinations. This continued development should lead to a stable class structure married to sensible evolution as demonstrated by the A-class. "


Do you recognise it now ?

And don't tell me that I'm imagining things. These were YOUR words.

All you have to do is show some real development not seen before in other classes.

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: F-18HT'S IN NEWPORT (race report) [Re: Wouter] #35418
07/13/04 06:22 PM
07/13/04 06:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 46
Virginia
wfo3 Offline
newbie
wfo3  Offline
newbie

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 46
Virginia
Wouter,

I have stood by and read your many posts over the past few months, without comment. First you tried to spar with my frind Bill Roberts in a battle of witts, but you seemed relatively unarmed. Now you attack a post by one of the finest US catsailors and a good friend of mine, Bob Hodges. I am amazed that you find it necessary to be so negative about any success by an individual or organization, other than those associated with your F-16HP class.

Bob Hodges is one of the few top notch sailors that still bother to post on these forums. He writes great race reports and often answers questions from less experienced sailors. We should think him for taking the time to share his experience and knowledge with those of us who can learn from him!

When you show that you have the boat design expertise (or engineering credentials)of Bill Roberts or the sailing prowest of Bob Hodges, then maybe someone will be impressed by your rantings. Until then, why not spend more time on the water and less on the keyboard.

Thats's all that I have to say,

W.F. Oliver

Re: F-18HT'S IN NEWPORT (race report) [Re: Wouter] #35419
07/13/04 06:25 PM
07/13/04 06:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 20
H
HuntS Offline
stranger
HuntS  Offline
stranger
H

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 20
Wouter (or some chicken sh_t pretending to be Wouter so he can bash another class -- notice that it doesn't actually read like Wouter)-

Get a grip! Can you even Read?

Bob never suggested the class was breaking new ground - just optimizing / refining what we have (which you would know, if you actually sailed, is the first step before you start going radical).

Hunt Stookey
18HT USA-14

Re: F-18HT'S IN NEWPORT (race report) [Re: wfo3] #35420
07/13/04 07:33 PM
07/13/04 07:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Bob and W.F. ; thank you very much for bothering to post on this forum.

It is great to see you are happy with the F18 HT and that the class has regalvinized the HT's classes in Europe. Thank you Bob for your experience and helping novice sailors

So, now tell us why the HT is a such great development class over just a normal class.

For some of us lesser talented people the picture is a little bit blurred.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: F-18HT'S IN NEWPORT (race report) [Re: HuntS] #35421
07/13/04 07:38 PM
07/13/04 07:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


I won't take the easy way out. This is really me Wouter.

Just got a huge appetite to be antagonistic tonight.

Will let you be soon enough however.

If Bob was merely pointing out that the HT clas is not breaking new ground but instead was optimizing and refining what they currently have than it would seem that I made an error in intepreting "This is a development class."

My bad,

But thank you for setting the record straight on me.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Ahh, my post was a bit on the heavy side ! [Re: Wouter] #35422
07/13/04 07:53 PM
07/13/04 07:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Ahh, my post was a bit on the heavy side !

There is nothing I like better than a good scathing post.

Although Bob may have become the victom of it a little bit.

Anyway my post wasn't directed at Bob but at the development class sailors in general.

Behind the sarcasme and scathing language is a mild message.

There isn't much value in the name development class when there isn't much true new development going on.

Now, I admit fully the others aren't development class in action or name so I'm not claiming any class is better than you guys. Just that there isn't much distance between you and the rest of us after 2 years of development.

Lately I was thinking about the canting rig that the Stealth F18HT uses. I would like to see that compared to a say a Jav without the canting rig principle. That would provide some on the water data that others can use. If not be a joy to read about. It is to bad that F18 disallowed inward canting boards, would also like to see how that holds up in a development class like the HT's.

Have some date on a modified F20 with such foils but its data is sporadic.

Maybe you guys want to jump in and exploit this window of opportunity ?

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Don't feed the troll.... [Re: Wouter] #35423
07/13/04 11:52 PM
07/13/04 11:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline
addict
flumpmaster  Offline
addict

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
Is this dross also by your fair pen? It would seem to contain the trademark spelling mistakes. Grammar I can excuse - but badly spelled polemic diatribes are beyond the pale.


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
What kind of code did you hide in that post ? [Re: flumpmaster] #35424
07/14/04 10:27 AM
07/14/04 10:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

humm, What kind of code did you hide in that post ?

Suddenly my firewall picks out a unautorized TCP/IP package to your Flumpmaster.dnsalias.com domain.

And some other interesting bits.

Spying on me, are you now ?

I think I will just block it this time. What do you think ?

Great handle you got there :

Hotyoungsluts@Yahoo.co.uk

Then a home page URL that says "Texas Dike" Before I know it I'll be on a porn site !

I better not click it then.

Regards,

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands

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