At the risk of "having my head chewed off" because I may hurt someone's feelings, I am going to use this forum for what it was intended....express my opinion.
<br>
<br>As I see it, there are numerous factors that have contributed to the decline of the "beach cat". Most, if not all, have already been covered on this forum. If I had to pick "just one" factor, it would have to be priorities. If the heart thumping rush you get, when you and your cat leave the beach to go play with Mother Nature, isn't enough to make this a MAJOR PRIORITY in your life....the rest of your excuses won't matter.
<br>
<br>Most forms of recreation involve the spending of money. Dollar for dollar, if catsailing is your priority, you get excellent return on your investment.
<br>
<br>It has to be a state of mind. It starts the night before you go sailing; you don't even think about hooking up the trailer, the drive to the beach, stepping the mast, rigging, because it is all part of the experience. YOU HAVE A PRIORITY!
<br>
<br>Sorry if I rambled...Forecast is mid-seventies...15-20mph.
<br>Boat is hooked up, priority calls.
<br>
<br>Thank you
<br>Dave<br><br>

...thinking about why the number of people currently having this priority is shrinking. Basically I see it as two distinct categories of efforts; "new blood" and "fighting attrition"
<br>
<br>Many factors like beach acess, organizational support, etc etc have effects on both efforts, some, like "starter boats" and "ongoing costs" and "Critical Mass" effect one more than the other. We're trying to butts remedies to as many of these as possible and get people working on them, and, again in my opinion, BEFORE the Boomer echo generation gets away from us.
<br>
<br>Ed
<br>
<br>PS BTW, I sailed a P19 this summer, nice boat!<br><br>(To Email me, take the Ihatespam. out of the domain in my displayed email.

You really want to know what's happened to cat sailing?
<br>
<br>In all our glory, our society has tried to perfect the perception of instant gratification. It's present in all we do. For the last 15 years, PWC's have become the norm because they are cheap ($3k - $6k), take almost no rigging time, and give enjoyment without having to spend $700 on new parts every few years. Granted, Beach Cats last for decades where they last for a few years, but at half the cost, cheap up-keep, and nominal preparation time, PWC's have become the norm. This is all due to our society's hunger for instant gratification with minimal personal contribution or sacrifice.
<br>
<br>Just my $0.02
<br>
<br>Andy Pipkin <br><br>

Most of all, it takes brains to sail. Not jsut any idiot can jump on a H16 and take off and have a blast. PWC's offer the stupid-proof solution to all those inpatient people out there who think they are enjoying the outdoors when they are actually destroying it.
<br>
<br>Andy<br><br>

Andy...You have a strong point. I looked back on all the frustration I had when I first started sailing, and can understand why your average Joe would give up. Is it because there are that many people, that don't want to put in the effort it takes to become a sailor? Have they not applied themselves to anything in their lives?
<br>Dave<br><br>

Hobie has made billions on us. If they were to provide 2-3 Waves (used 14's or ?) to each fleet , experienced members could take turns training the young ones 8-18 yrs old. This is the time to start ,like I am doing with my grand daughter (8 yrs. old). The sport is down a lot and will die if we do not pass this on to our kids. These boats could sold at the end other the year and replaced at beginning of season. This should give Hobie a tax right off?
<br>
<br>
<br>Doug Snell
<br>H17 Sport #6325
<br>"Stress Free"
<br><br><br>

right on. you do not have to think to run a power boat or a pwc.<br><br>

Have you ever noticed that all the excuses we come up with involve factors outside of us as individuals?
<br>
<br>Here is a non-exclusive list of some of the excuses:
<br>
<br>not enough beach access
<br>too expensive
<br>not enough time
<br>mixed up priorities
<br>too difficult
<br>blah blah blah!
<br>
<br>So here's my question: What have YOU done to promote this sport lately? Not what has Hobie Cat done, or what has Rick White done, or what has Murrays done, or what has [fill in blank] done, but what have YOU done?
<br>
<br>I bought my VERY FIRST CATAMARAN in August of 1998. A beat up Hobie 16 for $500. Why did I buy my first boat? If you want to know why then read the credits of the Rick White videos that we made. The basic story is that a great friend of mine introduced me to the sport, and said, Hey, why don't you go to Hi Tempo (our local dealer) and see if they have any cheap boats. He even spotted me a short term loan to buy it! What a guy! Everyone should have friends like that, that's for sure.
<br>
<br>Anyway, if you want to see our sport grow, then stop making excuses and DO YOUR PART! Make it a committment that you're going to at least take one person per month out on your cat WHO HAS NEVER BEEN SAILING BEFORE. I've done it, it's not that hard! In fact the most fun I had was driving out to a Lutheran summer camp where I used to be a counselor with my boat. I took home sick campers for rides, and they had a blast! Didn't take them long to forget about being home sick when we flew a hull!
<br>
<br>Then, once you can say you're doing your part, then go and approach Hobie, and the dealers, and give suggestions on how you can help them make the sport grow.
<br>
<br>All in all, don't be an arm chair quarterback about this, DO SOMETHING!
<br>
<br>By the way, Dave, please understand that when I say "you" I mean that in the collective sense, so don't take it personally!
<br>
<br>Fair winds from the great soon to be white North,
<br>
<br>Tim J.
<br>
<br><br><br>Hobie 20 #541
<br>Bald Eagle Yacht Club, Fleet 52
<br>White Bear Lake, MN

Hi Tim:
<br>
<br>Just got back from a wonderful sail. Just a tad under 80 degrees, and a steady 15-18. Ah, so nice to live on the coast of Florida and sail year round.
<br>
<br>I don't feel that you would intentionally make a statement about someone that you did not know, in a negative light.
<br>As I stated in my original post, I wanted to express an opinion. That opinion centered around "one" of the numerous factors that we feel contribute to the decline of the beach cat use.
<br>
<br>My point was that if catsailing is not a priority in one's life, then what does it matter if you can't find a place to launch, find the price of cats are too expensive, have a problem finding time, can't afford new sails..............?
<br>
<br>In my post, I made no reference to Hobie Cat, Rick White or Murrays. That was someone else's post.
<br>
<br>Ask anyone on this forum, that knows me, and you will find that I promote catsailing in our area with a cause. Since I sail on an average of 2 to 3 days a week,year round, I don't spend too much time in that armchair.
<br>
<br>Dave<br><br>

Hey Dave,
<br>
<br>I knew there might be confusion as to who or what I'm replying to. I'm just weighing in on this idea as a whole of the decline of cat sailing.
<br>
<br>I've seen you post many times, and know that you promote the sport. This is actually a thread I've thought about starting many times, but just haven't had the energy!
<br>
<br>I just hope a few people read this and realize that we're all responsible to the decline or increase of our sport, both collectively and individually!
<br>
<br>Cheers!
<br>
<br>Tim J.<br><br>Hobie 20 #541
<br>Bald Eagle Yacht Club, Fleet 52
<br>White Bear Lake, MN

Err... strongly put Tim, but to the point. We do do a lot of talking here. Buried in all that, tho, some things are actually going on. I've tried to encourage, more than demand, by starting in on this issue. "From each according to their abilities..." an all that. Quite a few of the comments on this thread have sparked clearer thinking among all of us as to avenues worth exploring. And I'm convinced some actions are coming of this whole thing.
<br>
<br>Also, and I think this is important, while you're absolutely right, we can all make a difference by choosing to purposely work at building up our sport, and we shoud do so; nobody had to 'make a commitment' to catsailing in its heyday- it just happened for reasons of its own, which we're trying to ID and where possible, re-create. "Getting commitment" is fine and, at this stage, even essential, but if a group of committed individuals is the only thing driving a 'thing' then that thing's growth is self limiting. When it reaches a certain size where adherants don't feel threatened with the 'decline' of their 'thing' then they don't tend to feel as committed any more. More effective in the long run to identify and use structures, methods, markets, styles etc, that make the sport compelling enough to grow 'virally' by one enthusiastic new convert hooking others.
<br>
<br>Yes I know this 'viral' factor is operative today, but attrition is apparently more operative, so we could stand to make things even more compelling!!!
<br>
<br>As for my own small effort: (Beside taking new people out whenever I can - I've even invited jetskiers out for a blast - and enthusiastic participation in our clubs annual event with a school for CP kids)
<br> I'm most of the way through setting up a doable plan for every major regatta wherein: a) every racer's hometown paper will get a PR saying, "[Hometown] resident [racer] [{participated}{placed ___}] in championship Sailboat racing in [venue].... and b) 4 or 5 nearby local papers to each event will get one before the event, to the effect "National/international/world class Sailboat Racing comes to [venue] and one after, optionally, with a URL for the publisher to get pictures.
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<br>Each story will briefly describe the exciting nature of Catsailing in general, and a paragraph or two about racing, too! Each hosting org. may elect to submit a "contact" to appear in the closing lines of the story optionally "...to meet some enthusiastic recreational sailors in this area, and [get started in this fun sport/get a look at these exciting boats up close/you pick it.]"
<br>
<br>I propose to hire one or more university's PR insource or outsource - they all have the newspaper Dbases, keyed by zip code, so they can send out little squibs every time some freshman gets outta bed three days running. My paper gets 'em by the bucketload. If we use an in-house resource, we, or a manufacturer, could pay in lessons, support or boats. We're only talking a couple thou a year for the whole job, here. Boilerplate stories, fill in the blanks mail-merge 'n database, one form for the P.R.O. or local club to fill out with attendees, line honors, contact info - hell, data collection could be done online, speeding turnaround, automating the process, cutting costs.
<br>
<br>Give me your ideas on what these boilerplate stories should say!
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<br>Regards,
<br>
<br>Ed Norris
<br>
<br>(To Email me, take the Ihatespam. out of the domain in my displayed email.

hey, I think the average pwc owner is looking for some excitement, the reason they don't own a cat is because they haven't been exposed, ie: you can see a pwc and one day just decide to go get one they aren't hard to learn to drive,(leaving all the rules of the water aside of course)
<br>now you see a cat go screaming by the beach and you think cool! but you don't think "I'm gonna get me one of those", since you don't sail and have no easy way to learn.
<br>my friend who shall remain nameless (Chris) was going to buy a pwc, I said come for a ride on my H16, he did and no longer wants a pwc, he has joined my fleet (204) 2 years in a row and he still hasn't bought a boat yet. we're working on that though.
<br>my target for conversion next summer is already a pwc owner, although he didn't use it at all this year(can you picture not using your cat for a whole summer?) I'm sure he'll be an easy conversion.
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<br>from all this I conclude, put a new person on your boat, take the time to teach them the basics, and make sure they have fun, and I stress fun, don't over-do it the first time don't yell at them when they screw up. Of all the new people I've had on my boat the number one thing said (by them) is I'm sorry, I can never understand this and I always tell them so. I tell fist time crew a few rules,
<br>1. stay with boat
<br>2. have fun
<br>3. pull that string when I say sheet in
<br>4. let it out when I say sheet out
<br>5. have fun
<br>6. smile, this is the most fun you'll ever have for free!
<br>7. if your not having fun yet read the rules again.
<br>Tim
<br>"Cheech" fleet 204 syracuse ny
<br><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by cheech on 11/07/01 12:28 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

Ed:
<br>
<br>What are your views concerning the strong emphasis on "racing", with respect to cat sailing? I know, for a fact, that the decline in the sizes of our local fleets were effected by it. (of course, there were other factors as well). As a new catsailor, going back 8-10 years, I remember going to fleet meetings and feeling lost because of the racers . Every meeting revolved around racing. A lot of "recreational sailors",
<br>as I was at that time.......felt very left out. Do you think that catsailing is perceived as a "have to race" sport? Just a thought.
<br>
<br>Dave<br><br>

Dave,
<br>
<br>Thanks for asking the question about the emphasis on racing. As I read through this latest thread, I found myself comparing the rise and fall of catamaran sailing to windsurfing. In the beginning, there were the “radical” enthusiasts at the fringes playing with something new and exciting. As time went on and the sport became visible on the water, it began to go mainstream. Windsurfing shops were opening all over. Here on Lake Champlain, rooftop rack-mounted boards could be seen on cars all over town. Everyone wanted to try it. The sport began to mature and the big early model and beginner boards began to disappear. The sport went high-tech. Performance of the boards and sails increased dramatically. No longer was one board/stick/sail combination enough. It got more and more expensive. The mainstream was left behind. Windsurfing returned to its roots at the radical fringes.
<br>
<br>It would seem that we’ve seen the same transition with catamarans. Over the years the cats have gotten pretty high-tech and fast – influenced by the racing community. Unless someone has already been hooked, however, the racing scene can be pretty intimidating. Racing can be endless fun and heart-pounding excitement that includes a lot of camaraderie among sailors, but it’s usually not the place for the beginner to jump in comfortably. The boats and the rules of racing can intimidate the beginner. There are just too many strings to pull for the uninitiated.
<br>
<br>What I’ve found so enjoyable about sailing is the combination of art and sciences that can be taken progressively to higher levels, but let’s not forget about the beginners. They need opportunities for easy, fun entry into the sport that may or may not include racing.
<br>
<br>Cheers,<br><br> Kevin Rose
<br>N6.0na #215
<br>kevin@paddleways.com
<br>

Kevin:
<br>
<br>I may be "way out in left field" with this, but has anyone toyed with the idea of having "some" of the local races inlude "mixed teams"? Say, a seasoned racer coupled with a prospective sailor. Regular crews may not like giving up their position, and there would be other factors to deal with. But if the prospective sailor were given the opportunity to participate, just maybe.......Like I said, "probably out in left field", but it does provoke thought.
<br>
<br>Dave<br><br>

You've jarred my memory as to another aspect of my entrance into the sport.
<br>
<br>When I bought that $500 1975 Hobie 16, I had a blast that first summer, but thought, gee it really stinks to have to trailer this, set it up, and tear it down every time. That mast is really big, I thought! So I started asking around to find a place to keep it rigged.
<br>
<br>That started with calling people who rented out dock space. "You want how much????, That's more than the boat cost!!" So, that didn't last long. Then I finally happened upon my local dealer, and he handed me a brochure for the Bald Eagle Yacht Club aka Hobie Fleet 52. He explained to me that this yacht club had no club house, membership dues of $50 at the time, and that they would find me a place to keep my boat.
<br>
<br>"And how much does that cost," I asked.
<br>"Nothing," he replied
<br>"Nothing?" I asked, "What do you mean, nothing?"
<br>"You just have to show up for at least half the races to stay in the good graces of the property owners," he replied.
<br>
<br>So, to make a long story short, that's how I got hooked on "recreational racing." It's a blast, we have fun, and don't take ourselves too seriously (except every now and then!). That's another thing that falls under the "what can I do" category. The philosophy of our fleet is that it's all about the people, not about clubhouses or facilities. The other part of it is that people who are members of the fleet, and own property on the lake, feel that the only way they're going to get good participation is to give people a spot to put their boat. When I first heard about racing fleets, I thought, what would I want to have to do with a bunch of racers? I'm a novice, and I don't know anything! The incentive was a place to keep the boat! Turned out to be one of the best groups of people I've ever become involved with.
<br>
<br>If you own property on water, think of this as yet another thing that you can do. As a non property owner, I try to be "Johnny on the spot" when it comes to helping my host put his dock in, take it out, and help with whatever else I can. I think it's a pretty generous thing for him and the other property owners to do, and hopefully I will be able to return the favor some day.
<br>
<br>Anyway, the point is, we've got to get people involved in recreational racing for the survival of the sport. I know that I've had just as much fun (err, almost) off the water as on the water with friends in the sport.
<br>
<br>Fair winds,
<br>
<br>Tim J.<br><br>Hobie 20 #541
<br>Bald Eagle Yacht Club, Fleet 52
<br>White Bear Lake, MN

Dave,
<br>
<br>In our fledgling fleet, we quite often have a “prospective sailor” crewing. There are several times when crew members can’t make it and we’re scrambling to find a body. Sometimes it’s a person who wanders by and shows interest.
<br>
<br>If racing were the first introduction, I would guess that it would take a few outings for the prospective sailor to get comfortable and start getting really excited. Jumping on a boat and heading out to the start can be pretty overwhelming for some. The thing that we want to demonstrate is how easy it is to start sailing while having lots of opportunities to grow.
<br>
<br>Cheers,<br><br> Kevin Rose
<br>N6.0na #215
<br>kevin@paddleways.com
<br>

On the racing verus non-racing thing. For our Fleet, having the racing on a weeknight is a help. Most people with families and other obligations find it hard to regularly give up weekend time. Weekend recreational sailing is going to come when you have the time for it, and sometime kid's soccer games and falling down houses need attention first. We have a few who are not able to do the Frostbite series because that is on the weekends. But, the weekly series things on a week night seems to offer up a way and an excuse for people who are time-stressed on the weekends to get out on the water each week. Almost like being in a bowling or softball league. I can honestly say that my sailing time would be greatly reduced if it weren't for the weekly series we run. It also offers newbies more opportunities to learn from others and reduce the frustration factors. Of course, to make this work you do need to keep the boats rigged. A lot of the folks that are cutting their teeth in our Fleet are starting to attend the region's weekend events as well. In addition, having the boats stored and rigged for the weekly racing means that they are more easily available for weekend noodle sailing. And I think learning about racing helps markedly with boat handling skills, whether they end up racing or cruising sailors in the long-run.<br><br>Keith, Annapolis, Md.
<br>H-18
<br>Northstar 500 (monoslug)
<br>www.wrcra.org

Just a side note that some of you may consider is using model radio (RC) controlled sailboats to introduce people to sailing. The RC sailing portion of my sailing programs has been almost as popular if not more popular than the on-the-water sailing part of my programs. On weekdays when time is limited RC sailboats work great due to quick set-up time, etc. Also we do winter sailing either on the lake or on the indoor swimming pool with wind created by 3 high output fans. Plus new sailors can do almost anything with a RC sailboat with no negative consequences, which then creates a great, desire to do on-the-water sailing. I also use a sailing simulator that one actually sits on with a real sail and again 3 high output fans to create the wind. We also use sailboats (on-the-water) that allow for the integration of sailors with and without disAbilities that has also proven popular for all. I am of course involved in disAbled sailing and for the most part most sailing organizations think sailors with disAbilities should be part of a disAbled designated sailing group, of course I totally disagree and feel everyone should sail together. The model boats I use are the RC Laser monohull and RC Wildcat catamaran. And again the boats we use for our inclusive junior, youth, and adult on-the-water sailing programs are the Access Dinghy 2.3, 303, and the Hobie 16 with or without Trapseats. I must add that I never thought the RC sailboat portion of my sailing programs would be so popular but it has proven to be extremely popular and an lot of fun for all which has resulted in increase participation and boat sales.
<br>
<br>Miles Moore
<br>www.sail-s.com<br><br>

I agree that cat sailing and all sailing is fun in general. However there are some people who try and take the fun out of it by refusing to answer questions such as which course numnber, which way to round marks etc. This makes it hard for some people to want to race at some of the events to do it without fear of being protested for a stupid error.<br><br>Hobie 14 sail #17827
<br>Hobie 16 sail #72585