I've heard many different opinions and views on the 18HT class... i've seen them sailing at several regattas but i'd never sailed one until the Newport Regatta.
I've been given boats before by boat owners, sometimes for a small fee, sometimes for free. But never before had I been offered a factory owned boat for free by a class. Do any other factories give boats out like this to regular sailors such as myself? As far as I know they just give them to the hotshots.
I was so excited when I was offered this boat I called up my friend Bret Sullivan (2003 U.S. Youth Multi-hull champ) to see if he wanted to sail with me. He said of course and called out of work and drove up to CT that night.
We arrived in Newport expecting an elitist group of catamaran sailors many of whom we'd never met before. Once we found our boat and started talking to the other HT sailors we were amazed to find how friendly they were. I've been to many regattas in the past few years and always found all cat sailors to be great people but I must say that this group was by far the friendliest. Here were two 19 year old kids showing up to use a boat we had never saied before and they did whatever they could to get us on the water. Later that night Bret and I were talking about how awesome the HT sailors had treated us and we both were in total agreement about how wrong some of the class critics had been.
Well I suppose I should mention my thoughts about the boat too. The boat was awesome to say the least... we had a well used charter boat that still sailed better than most boats i've sailed and it handled great. The set up of the boat is for the most part well thought out and it makes the boat a blast to sail.
As for the racing... the wind on Saturday was great with double trap conditions but a little light for our taste on Sunday with a little double trap but mostly single to no one on the wire. We seemed to settle in around 5th and 6th place as we slowly got the hang of the boat and improved on our limited regatta spinnaker experience.
All and all it was a great weekend and we were both very happy we decided to race.
As for the HTs getting into the YC environment... Saturday coming in as were were flying a hull double trapped by the Lasers we yelled to one kid on a laser "you've gotta get one of these" and he smiled at us enviously and yelled back "I want one!". This was a great feeling and it gave us a sense of hope that when all you old folk get to old to race us we will have some competition haha. We had tons of kids come up to us and ask us about the boat and how we got into it and etc. Hopefully we will see some of those kids at some future regattas. I think it was a great way of promoting catamaran sailing to these kids since they saw two other youths on a boat like this. Maybe we need to get more youths on boats like this around yacht clubs so the kids don't think it's just a bunch of adults on these boats. Way to go HT class!

Todd-

It was awesome to have you guys out racing with us - this should be a great boat for good young teams (as well as couples) -- you just don't need to be that heavy.

And nice job for first time in the boat! That was great to see.

Hunt Stookey
18HT USA-14

Most youths (or their parents) aren't heavy enough in the wallet to afford these boats - or to "keep up with the Jones" on a development class.

You'd be amazed with the amount of money some youth monohull sailors have. Many youth monohull sailors own 420s, optis, lasers and etc while the parents also own bigger boats sometimes.
But even if they can't afford to get into this developmental class, as I sure can't. They will see these awesome cats out there and will get interested in cats in general and could easily pick up anything from a cheap 16 to an F18 or a nacra 6.0 if they are two older youths.
It's something for the kids to strive for down the road. I know if I ever become very successful or win the lotto(haha), I plan to buy an A cat or something along those lines.

Questions :
Hunt, you mention you don`t need to be that heavy, what is the ideal crew weight on these boats ? With that monster mast & mainsail area, and 21sqm kite, I`d have thought heavier is better. Is 125kg crew weight too light ? (And how big do your forearms need to be to close that leech ?).
At this crew weight, what is the max. windspeed you could expect to be competitive in ?

Matt, costs are interesting : I read on the Stealth web-site that F18HT costs 25% LESS than F18 boats, something of a mystery to me, I`d have expected the reverse. I can agree that development classes cost more to stay competitive, but only to a point : there is not that much you can modify on simple boats, I`m sure a "standard" F18HT boat is going to be competitive without too many mods, correct me if I`m wrong here. At 25% less than F18, there is a fair amount left over for modification anyway ! (Assuming you have the budget for either to start out with). I`m surprised to find that a boat 50kg lighter with a carbon mast costs LESS to produce.

Last question, which is faster, and in which conditions ? I`ve only seen video footage of F18HT, never seen a real live one. I`ve sailed Hobie Tiger, and the extra weight makes it feel a bit unresponsive, but very smooth (still damn fast though.*) I`m sure the lower weight of HT makes it feel much more lively, maybe sacrificing the smooth ride of F18 ?

(*Comment based on comparison between Hobie Tiger & my 16ft 100kg F16 Mosquito - Hobie Tiger sailors need not take offense. - Tigger is quicker, but nearly twice the weight!!)

Cheers
Steve

>>I can agree that development classes cost more to stay competitive, but only to a point : there is not that much you can modify on simple boats,

Well the answer has been given by the A-cat class, didn't it.

M&M A2 15.500 US dollars (I seem to remember that being without a sail)
Boyer Flyer 15.000 Euro's incl sail = 14.000 - 14.500 US$ without a sail.

Compare this to F18 prices

Tiger F18 14.500 US$ (Correct me if I'm wrong here)
Nacra F18 12.500 US$
Cirrus F18 in EU 15.500 Euro = 14.500 US$ because of lower US taxes etc.

For a boat that has only one sail and not alot of everything else it sure is expensive in a relative sense.

Count how much more gear is fitted to an F18 and they are running down A's in anything but drifters.

It is unbelievable how much money can eventually be sunk in a simple development boat.


>>I`m surprised to find that a boat 50kg lighter with a carbon mast costs LESS to produce.

Remember that Stealth is producing very inexpensive boats. Ventilo for example asks alot more for their HT's about the same as a I-20.

To give a comparison, Steaths 16 footer is only 15-20% more expensive than a bare Hobie 16. Given the gear on it alone makes this is a major achievement. Their HT is much the same.

Besides making a carbon mast in house is significantly cheaper.


Wouter

Your pricing for the Tiger is right on, Wouter, although buying a new one is not the most economical option. New boats need minor hardware additions that will tack on another $500 - $1000. (Depends on what kind of snuffer system you want to use.)

I bought my Tiger used (2002 Alter Cup boat) w/ a new jib and 2nd spinnaker for $10,500. So far, it's been quite competitive (when the nut at the end of the tiller is tightened down properly )

I've heard numbers as high as $30K being tossed around for the acquisition, set up and modification of F18 HT. That's a lot of money for most 19 year olds. Even $15K is a lot.

If I had that kind of disposable money when I was 19, I'd be looking at cars, not boats

With regards to the ideal crew weight a note:
at the Newport Regatta, held in medium to light winds, races were won by crews weighting 300, 350 and 380 lbs.

With regard to the entry cost have a look at the classified on the US 18HT web site:
you will see that you can buy a very good used 18HT for less than 9,000 USD.
I doubt that you can find a very good used F18 in the US for the same amount of money!

With regard to the quotation of new boats, I am aware that in Europe a Tiger, a Cirrus, a Mattia etc., when you add all the racing optionals, is priced well above EUR 15,000.
For a new Javelin 2 you have to pay only EUR 12,800 and for a standard Stealth 18HT EUR 12,000, i.e. some 2,700/3700 USD less.

Moreover it is true that the 18HTs have far less fittings than a F18, but it has to be underlined too that they features an expensive carbon mast and hulls some 10-14 Kg lighter than the ones of a F18

Steve-

Kris and I sail at ~130 Kg and we feel pretty quick. That said 125 kg is probably the bottom end - it is a big sail.

Obviously we should have an advantage in lighter to moderate conditions, and should have a bit of a disadvantage upwind once we get overpowered (but we haven't really sailed with the top guys in much breeze yet -- at least not since we started going better). Downwind I am not sure we will ever be at a disadvantage - we should always be able to sail deeper at the same speed. So the bottom line is that we don't know yet. And since we are buoy racing we never really have to reach - then we would get buried in breeze!

As to trimming the main - we have a 10:1 mid-boom setup, and I can play it just fine. Kris at a whopping 110# would have difficulty with it but she is concentrating on driving. Downwind Kris has a 5:1 course tune on the rear beam which is plenty, but she pretty much only needs to play the traveller anyway.

As to cost. These boats are actually pretty darn cheap by comparison. With a used boat (2003 ICCT) someone could be fully competitive in the US today for around $10K. Tops they would spend about $12.5K.

Yes there is a certain individual who has probably spent close to $30K - but most of us have just bought new sails (which we needed to do anyway after a couple of years). Bob Hodges won last weekend on a basically stock boat (with current generation sails), and our boat is basically stock w/ new sails and a different rudder and we went 2-1-2 on Sunday to win the day (didn't race Saturday - big bummer).

If you want to you can: cant your hulls; grind off all the gelcoat and put on fancy metalic paint; glue down carbon beams; buy a gucci marstrom snufffer and rudders; test 4 different mainsails; etc. etc. But you don't have to.

If someone buys a used boat today all they really need to do is spend about $1000 on a new higher hoist chute. If they are coming from the top of another cat fleet (tornado) they might want to buy a new main, but the Petruccis are pretty nice - I wouldn't spend the money for a year or two.

I am sure that over time there will be big developments, and the next generation boats may cost more (although the class may commission the next boat and keep the costs down that way). Another thing - these boats get bought directly from the manufacturers so there is not all the overhead of a dealer network of marketing. On the other hand when something breaks, your support may be in Europe. So you have to be pretty self reliant. I like it that way but others might not.

Right now, I am done playing with this boat - we have it set up the way we like and we are just going to go sailing for the next year or so.

Hunt
18HT USA 14.

How many of these boats are racing in the US?
This is the first time I've ever heard that they have a fleet.

Zealot-

We have been actively racing one-design for about a year and a half now with racing centered around the Chesapeake, Newport, and Pensacola. typical regatta fleet is anywhere from ~8-14 so far.

I think there are about 35 private boats in the US/Can with a mix of more and less active racers (kinda depends where you live). Plus there are a few that were already in the country for the Worrell before it imploded and have been used for the ICCT and other events - like the one Todd sailed last weekend.

The biggest single fleet is Newport RI where there are 7-8 boats at Sail Newport for the summer, and where we typically get 3-5 on Saturday's for the Ida Lewis Yacht Club series.

>>I bought my Tiger used (2002 Alter Cup boat) w/ a new jib and 2nd spinnaker for $10,500. So far, it's been quite competitive (when the nut at the end of the tiller is tightened down properly )

Ain't that the truth !

Have been racing on a friends Inter 18 a few times this year and have thoroughly enjoyed myself and did reasonable well too. Considering that we are definately a crew of opportunity..

Old boats are for more compitive them alot of people think. You need to make sure that all the gear is working properly and smoothly again.

The rest is just to learn to sail better !

Wouter

Cool !!

>>you will see that you can buy a very good used 18HT for less than 9,000 USD.
>>I doubt that you can find a very good used F18 in the US for the same amount of money!

Here is a claim that is easily disproved :

Catsailors Classified section accessed today 16 july 2004 (just a wild pick)

-1- 2000 Inter18 + cat trax, trailex trailer extra's as Harnesses, drytops,vests,all my gear times two. = 9500 US$

Sounds pretty good with all those extra's but We'll keep looking :

-2- 2002 Hobie Tiger Top 10 finish in Tiger Worlds, Singapore = US$ 9000,-


Ahh, there it is, about halve way down the page after 46 sec searching; A plended 2002 Tiger for 9000 US$


May have been wise to have done some fact checing before you made that claim Catfan !


Wouter

self tacker etc, etc, etc

buy new Formula sails 2-3K and your in the game.

Ad on the catsailor site.