on every boat i have had or sailed, the harken gear has, at some point, failled. everything from blocks to cleats. i am very dissapointed with this krap.
<br> on my current boat my windward sheeting traveller has had the machine screws that hold the cleat pull out. these are under no vertical load.
<br> my main haylard block exploaded the other day. at one point in time this block held all of the haylard load but i installed a sky hook a while back and now it is under next to no load.
<br> every harken cleat i have ever used has failed. the line would slip or the whole thing would come apart.
<br> i know i will be told th pay closer attention to the swl and the bs numbers but i do. i do not think i have ever exceded these numbers. i know the type of sailing i do, and it is not the kind that puts 2000lbs on a block.
<br> i guess my question is: why the hell do boat manufactures use this stuff and why do owners continue to use it?<br><br>

That's the first bad comments I've ever heard about Harkan hardware! When I bought my Nacra, it's all anybody kept saying: "Good boat - all Harkan hardware". I've not had any problems with my Harkan items (it's all about 18 years old) and continue to get those good comments. I've been very happy with it all. How old is your boat/hardware? I've got a cleat that is beginning to slip on some newly replaced rope but it's also over 18 yrs. old. I couldn't ask for anything better.<br><br>[color:blue][b]Jake
<br>[color:blue][b]Nacra 5.2 (2112)

Until a couple years ago, Harken would replace any broken block, no questions asked, with a new one. If you are having a problem with any Harken equipment, you should talk to them about it and discover for yourself how responsive they are. We had problems this spring with the new carbo mainsheet blocks that came on the Mystere 4.3s that we bought. I let Harken know about the problems and they were all over it - the response they provided is the kind you dream of and wish every vendor would exhibit. They provide equipment to the highest levels of the sport and we get the benefit all the way down to an inexpensive little 14 footer! They were just chosen by the marine industry this year for a prestigious vendor award. They are constantly innovating new and useful gear and have a presence around the world. These are some of the reasons that manufacturers choose them and that sailors like me are happy they do. While I have had a few failures with their equipment over the years, they have always been corrected at no cost to me by Harken. Contact them about your problems and learn for yourself what their customer service is like. Their catalog even has photos of their employees so you can look at who you are dealing with over the phone. <br><br>

the boat i am on now is about four years old. outside of the harken parts that i mentioned, the boat is rigged with lewmar and ronstan.
<br> i have been in touch with the local harken guys and they gladly replaced the gear. however, it only failled later. i have up-sized stuff, only to have that come apart as well. replacing that stuff with lewmar or ronstan stuff, of the same size, fixed the problem.<br><br>

I can't say I've ever had a problem with harken hardware, but I guess I also cannot say that I've EVER experienced the kind of gear failures you describe, so I'm not really speaking to the issues of strength or durability.
<br>
<br>What I HAVE noticed is that the harken marketing folks are WAY too big for their britches. I don't know how the prices relate in the rest of the world, but up here in rocky old new england Harken gear is ALWAYS the most expensive, and it NEVER gets discounted. I've owned three boats in the past few years and worked on a few dozen more (gotta love collegiate sailing!) and all have been originally equipped with harken gear. whenever tinkering or adding gear to the boat, I've always gone to the store intending to purchase complementary equipment, but I always walk out with ronstan because I just cannot justify the extra cost of the harken stuff.
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<br>WHY does the market (we, the general sailing public) support such a price difference? are there THAT many of you out there that will buy harken just because it says harken?? I know it's good stuff but is it really so much better than the rest?<br><br>

Yep, Harken is better than the rest. I stress my boat in the most extreme conditions and I've never had a Harken failure that I can remember. I've thrown away a few Ronstat blocks and will never buy another. You can take the working load on Ronstat and divide it by 10 and it might last a year or so. I've had good luck with Lewmar but hardly get a chance to use the stuff.
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<br>I just remembered I've had a harken cleat burn through one time. Now I always buy the aluminum cleats and I've never had a problem with those.
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<br>Harken expensive and worth every penny.
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<br>Mike Hill
<br>H20 #791
<br><br><br>

I have generaly had very good luck with Harken Products. The only problems I have had have related to their travelers and furlers. The stainless bolts used on their traveler cars are not strong enough. When you sheet realy hard and sail in chop they snap. The answer is to replace them with titanium bolts available from Rick Bliss at New England Catamarans. This is a 3 dollar solution.
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<br>The other problem I had was a Harken high load furler drum failed while sailing in Curacao. This had a high suck factor because it caused us to demast. Harken replaced it, only after I sent a personal leter to Peter Harken. After calculating the loads on the furler and comparing them to the loads sustained in a pitchpole, or pounding in the surf, their furlers are marginal for use on Cats. In fact their catalog states they are only for 18' and smaller cats.
<br>I still recomend Harken products. In general I think they make the best gear out there. I do also know we use alot of gear at loads way above swl. Lets face it, 20 foot cats break daggerboards, rudder castings, hotsticks, shrouds, masts, etc. when you push them. When I got back from curacao, every single beam bolt on the boat was bent. Why should blocks and cleats be any different?
<br>I don't think you can expect a zero fail rate. I figure everything on the boat is an expendable. cary alot of spares, wash everthing after sailing and suck it up.
<br>
<br>Eric<br><br>

in your case, sailing in hard to extreme conditions and racing hard, it is easy to suck it up. well, easier. i do not sail my boat too hard. not because i cant, but because those conditions only happen once in a blue moon where i sail. my gear should not fail. i replaced one cleat one day only to have it fail two weeks later. i then replaced it with a ronstan cleat. that was a year ago.<br><br>

Like most of the others, I've never had a block failure (mostly I have Harken, some Ronstan, 1 Lewmar). OK, I did have one jib block where the cleat angle adjustment screws rusted in place after much salt-water abuse....mostly my fault for lack of adequate rinsing.<br><br>Anyway, I can't believe the level of failures you describe, regardless of the manufacturer! Yet, you say the weather is seldom very strong? This is weird! <br><br>You don't live in the Bermuda triangle or something, do you?<br><br>Alan Thompson<br>I20 - San Diego<br><br>

"windward sheeting traveler" . . . I assume you mean the jib track? Regardless, some of what you describe is not Harken gear. The screws you refer to that pulled out probably would have gone regardless what blocks were attached. It sounds a little like the guy who hates 'Ford' (substitute any manufacturer here) because the last one he had lost an alternator, blew the radiator hose, kept having dead batteries and flats. We all have had bad experiences on boats or cars, but it's critical to find the cause of the failure and assign the blame correctly. Although the problems you describe sure sound like you've had more than your fair share of Harken failures, it still may not be all Harken's fault. Of course, it may all be their fault, just to be impartial.
<br>Many loads put on the equipment can be seriously amplified through operator actions. I know I've been able to track down all my equipment failures to actions of my own: 1) Age, 2) Deferred maintenance or cleaning, screws pulled out because I didn't rinse the boat after salt sailing and the corrosion ate bigger holes, or I let dirt get in the blocks or cleats which then wore out the bearings, 3) exceeding loads, letting the traveler run from one side of the boat to the other on a jibe in 30 knot winds, (blown-up main blocks?) 4) not lubeing, oiling, checking etc.
<br>These boats are high maintenance, but most of us don't do it. Most equipment is old. Use Lewmar, Ronstan Oxens, Harken, whatever. Lube it, clean it, cover it, it can last a long time. Ignore it or abuse it, it will break.
<br>Just sail. I hope you never have another equipment failure.<br><br>

windward sheeting traveler cars for the main sail allow the car to be pulled past the centerline without having to release the cleat on the low side. i have part #212 in the 2001 harken book. the screws thet pulled out were the 1/4" 20s that hold the windward apperatus on the car.
<br> i sail in toronto canada. fresh water.
<br> i maintain my hardware.
<br> i sail hard when i can.
<br> i break harken gear.<br><br>

Dear Mr. Case -
<br>
<br>Like a lot of the folks who posted below, I'm pretty partial to Harken hardware, and VERY satisfied with their customer service. As crew, I get to spend a lot of time on other peoples' boats, and I much prefer the Harken stuff up front than the one or two boats I've seen with something else installed in crew country. Granted, I didn't have to buy the stuff, but I am about to become a boat owner, and they've already got my loyalty. Not to say that I'm not a shrewd customer, but I generally see that Harken and Ronstan prices track fairly closely.
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<br>I CAN say that my experience with their reps has been outstanding! They supported our Worrell team with INCREDIBLE customer service throughout the event and have actually fabricated new parts according to special requests. I've never heard their people say anything other than, "Yeah, I think we can do that."
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<br>The level of failures on your boat does seem remarkable, though. Have you tried exorcism?
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<br>In any case, glad you found stuff that's working for you.
<br>
<br>John<br><br>

i dont have anything 'against' harken. i just wont buy it any more.
<br> my experiances with customer service has been great. the people are helpful and friendly. the gear is, in my humble opinion, krap. thats all.<br><br>

Their stuff will break, but your track record seems like it is at the extreme upper end of the bell curve. I haven't ever come across that amount of breakage. Are similar boats in your fleet breaking the same stuff with the same regularity?
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<br>It just doesn't figure. Like others who've replied, I'm baffled.
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<br>Best bet: Buy some other company's gear and be happy with it.
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<br>That leaves more "krap" for the rest of us to own and use... ;-)
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<br>I'd gladly trade you all the non-harken gear I have for your harken stuff. We'll both come out ahead in that trade, eh?
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<br>Happy sailing.
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<br>--littlepat
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<br>~opinions are like azzhulls, everyone's got one, nobody cares about others' and some stink more than the rest~ ;-)<br><br>

you know what, i just dont get it. i dont think that i stress the boat that much. i would have thought that i would have lost other things, ie:shrouds, sails, whatever, before blocks and cleats.
<br> as far as trading stuff, i have two or three small, no load harken blocks left on the boat now. the rest is all lewmar and ronstan and i could not be happier with their preformance.<br><br>

i went up my mast this weekend to replace the main haylard block. one side of the shieve was not there any more. i dont get it. i could understand the line burning through the center of it, but not one side.
<br> i use a 1/4" pre stretch line and a sky hook. once the sail is up, there is not any load on that block. hoisting the sail, there is next to no load, what maybe 50 lbs? not even.
<br> any ideas?<br><br>

Harken hardware is without exception the finest made in the sailing industry. You don't have to look very hard at the America's Cup boats to find their gear at almost every location on them...
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<br>I have had lots of gear fail on boats but that was because it was either over loaded or poorly maitenanced.
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<br>I would suggest calling Harken and relaying to them more specifics and I think you will find that either the gear was simply worn out from decades of use or it is being improperly used.
<br>
<br>MM<br><br>Mark Michaelsen
<br>Sailing Pro Shop
<br>(800) 354-7245

the haylard block i just replaced was just over one year old. part number 096 used with a mystere hook and a hobie ring.
<br> i have spent the beter part of 16 years working and building boats so i have some rough idea how boats work and how to maintain them and their gear.
<br> all of these problems supprise the heck outa me. these things should not happen. all of the other gear i have had has worked fine. i just have bad 'luck' with harken.<br><br>

I sail a Mystere 6.0 that I bought used (1997 model) this year. Within the first two weeks of ownership, I found the Harken halyard block at the mast top was gone. I mean this thing was melted through the bearings and the sheaf itself.
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<br>Keep in mind that that main sail is held up by a hook and the only load on the top block is when the halyard is pulled by hand.
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<br>The only load that this block experiences is from manual (with no winches or other mechanical advantages) hand hoists. the halyard exits the block, goes down the mast, and makes a U turn throgh a block at the mast bottom.
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<br>The biggest loads that I have exerted on this block is if I stand on the deck and lift the 3/16" line in an upward direction, using my legs and arms together.
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<br>After finding that I had melted the sheaf, I replaced it with a brand new one. Within a few weeks I had to do it all over again. One used one gone and one new one gone now.
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<br>The third block lasted a bit longer becase I was being careful not to put any of that big brute force this little 190# guy could put on it. Yes this one must have lasted a full two or three months before it started to groan from having less than round ball bearings.
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<br>One More Thing:
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<br>When I bought my boat, the furler was missing. So I bought a brand new harken high load catamran furler. After 8 months it is beginning to make a screaching noise as the lower drum cage fingers are rubbing agains the upper drum. That means to me that the bearings have worn and are allowing the two drums to move closer together. I have not bent the housing and I have given things a close look. Yep, the furler is failing.
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The new forum works!!!!!
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<br>This thread would have quickly deteriated (Spelling police there?) on the old forum to name calling and swearing. Instead, the arguing had to be based on well thought out comments. Though, the thread was aggressive at times, all the comments were informative and relatively polite. The reader is left to draw there own conclusions, -as it should be.
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<br>Congratulations, Rick !!!<br><br>Jeff Peterson
<br>H-16 Sail #23721
<br>Big Marine Lake, MN