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Catamarans get bad press (again) #39233
10/20/04 11:26 AM
10/20/04 11:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 190
Long Island, NY
Steven Bellavia Offline OP
member
Steven Bellavia  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 190
Long Island, NY
You have to read this article in one of our local papers that refers to catamarans as "gnats" and "Why were these things bugging us":
http://www.danspapers.com/paper/northfork2.html
I wrote a good response, which is below. I hope they print it.

My response:
Hi Dan,

Love your paper, always have.

I have a response to the article "Whitebread Regatta: A Sailor's Story" written by Greg Burton on page 39 of the October 15th issue.

I was sailing on a "that catamaran" as he referred to, in that race. There were actually four of us total, and one 43 foot trimaran in our division. We were referred to as "gnats" and then later on he asks "Why were these things bugging us?"

I'm not sure why he felt we were bugging them any more than any of the other racers. He stated, "and that catamaran shot past our bow". If it were a J120 or another type boat, would it have been any different? It wasn't the same catamaran passing them each time, though we do "all look alike". We started last at 10:05AM, as there were 15 minutes between each division's start (not 10 minutes as he stated), separating the first and last divisions by one hour. After 4 and half hours we were able to pass nearly all 100 "monohulls" that started ahead of us, with only 3 that we could not catch by the finish. He also forgets to mention that 2 of the catamarans finished in front of their boat "Team Tonic" (a very well sailed Beneteau 42s7, owned and skippered by Jim & Ellen Sanders), but somehow we are just left out of those standings in his article. I guess this is because he feels we really aren't sail boats, but some sort of annoying insect. I too own a monohull, and also a Beneteau, like "Team Tonic". But I've always felt that if a boat has a stove, a shower, and a place to sleep, it's really not for racing. That would be like bringing a motor home to a Nascar, Indy or Formula-1 track and then wondering why all these annoying little cars are "shooting past you..."

Thanks!

Steve Bellavia


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-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Steven Bellavia] #39234
10/20/04 11:40 AM
10/20/04 11:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 285
Hampton, Virginia
Tracie Offline
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Tracie  Offline
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Hampton, Virginia
I read the article in question.

I think they are envious but they'll never admit it. It is easier to label them as a nuisance then to accept that they are going faster than you and they should be taken seriously. Just like any other boat on the course.

Tracie

Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Steven Bellavia] #39235
10/20/04 11:55 AM
10/20/04 11:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Mark Schneider  Offline
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Annapolis, MD
Hi Steve

Where you flying a class racing flag to designate that you were racing?

We made CBYRA's Beach Cat flag a bit larger then the mono's so that they could not fail to notice that we were racing in several of the mono events we compete in.

Take Care
Mark



crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Tracie] #39236
10/20/04 12:02 PM
10/20/04 12:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
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It was a crewmember who said the catamarans are like gnats. IMO I think it was a sarcastic comment and not being disrespectful to us.

Depends on how you look at it. [Re: Robi] #39237
10/20/04 01:17 PM
10/20/04 01:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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I agree 100% with Robi's take on the article and I didn't take offense to the reference. In fact I'd say he was being kind.

If I were stuck on the rail of a big slow leaner for 5 hours then some punk who slept a whole lot later than me beat me to the keg by over an hour... you bet your butt I would have some comments and they wouldn't be pretty :-)

I think it's great that events like the Whitebread let the cats play. I have always had a great time at these type of regatta's.

Ding


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
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Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Mark Schneider] #39238
10/20/04 01:17 PM
10/20/04 01:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 190
Long Island, NY
Steven Bellavia Offline OP
member
Steven Bellavia  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 190
Long Island, NY
Hi Mark,

Yes we all flew the class flag (yellow for our division, which was one of five). Last year we actually ran the race for them! They were out of volunteers and it was getting close to being cancelled when I agreed to be the P.R.O and assembled my own race committee, almost entirely composed of members from LICSA. That's why they "let us" race this year. There were no complaints and many, many other competitors came up to us at the mega-party and congratulated us and told us how nice it was to see us out there. I also know the owner of the boat in the article very well and he and I had no problems with each other out there, so I think we have made good progress in the public relations area. It just seems the press slams us once in a while...

Steve

Attached Files
39435-Greg&Rich_4.jpg (83 downloads)
Last edited by Steven Bellavia; 10/20/04 01:19 PM.

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Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Robi] #39239
10/20/04 01:57 PM
10/20/04 01:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Yeah - I'm with Robi. I didn't necessarily take offense to the comment...it was more of a situational comment about life on the big boat than a derogetory comment against catamarans. I think that overall he was reasonably complimentary to the speed of the catamarans.

Last edited by Jake; 10/20/04 01:58 PM.

Jake Kohl
Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Jake] #39240
10/20/04 02:04 PM
10/20/04 02:04 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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The picture with all the guys on the rail even has a cat in the background

Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Steven Bellavia] #39241
10/20/04 03:34 PM
10/20/04 03:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 138
CraigO Offline
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CraigO  Offline
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They are just Jealous. Had the same thing happen back in 1988. A bunch of us Smoked the stinkpots in a Distance race heard one of them say at the awards party we weren't "Real Boats". I asked them what time did the get off the boat. They said about 5 or so. I had to tell them I had been on the trailer and drinking by 3, so who's the "Real Boat Now". He didn't have much to say to that other than when could he get a ride!

Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Steven Bellavia] #39242
10/20/04 06:40 PM
10/20/04 06:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
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I read the entire article, in true mono form, the author does NOT recognize cats as a "real" sail boat. The author seems to relate to cats as I relate to jetskis.


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #39243
10/21/04 07:29 AM
10/21/04 07:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 264
Long Island, NY
gregP19 Offline
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Long Island, NY
That's me in the background. The Beneteau was pointing really well but I managed to squeek by with a few feet to spare. The writer of the story is apparently not experienced enough yet to write about sailing much less racing. He obviously didn't have his head out of the boat because the same cat seemed to come out of nowhere again and again.


G Gove Blade #728 Long Island, New Yawk
Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Steven Bellavia] #39244
10/21/04 09:46 AM
10/21/04 09:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,226
Atlanta
bvining Offline
veteran
bvining  Offline
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Atlanta
This pisses me off... When I saw the Notice of race, I was tempted to race, but the fact that they didnt recognize any of the multi-hulls in the standings is a reason not to bother. (I am assuming that the cats placed)

This happens in the mixed mono/multi distance races in Newport also. The Cats and multi's routinely get left out of the overall standings - even though the cats kill the mono's on corrected time.

Why cant the race committee use a corrected time handicap on the cats and include?

We should all ask if the event committee is going to score the cats with the mono's upfront, and if they arent - then dont bother paying your money - just race, the whole point of registering and paying is to get scored.

Bill

Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: bvining] #39245
10/21/04 07:19 PM
10/21/04 07:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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I finally read the article, and I don't see anything in there derogatory toward beach cats. I think some of you guys are paranoid and overly defensive.

What IS bad is multihull sailors (on boats large or small) flaunting their superior speed and bragging about how they got back to the keg and the showers first.

Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Mary] #39246
10/21/04 07:48 PM
10/21/04 07:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
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South Florida & the Keys
That catamaran was back, zipping past our transom. And then, just as we passed the last natural corner of the course, another cat swooshed by us. Why were these things bugging us?


So now we are sailing a "thing".

Go SOX!

The article itself is not inflamatory but it would be nice if the author would recognize the difference between mono's and multi's in a positive tone.

I have been looking for a name for my new ARC 21, I now have the answer. I am going to name each hull; "THING 1" will be port and "THING 2" will be starboard.

Don't be hatin'


Last edited by arbo06; 10/21/04 07:49 PM.

Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: arbo06] #39247
10/21/04 09:46 PM
10/21/04 09:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Quote
I have been looking for a name for my new ARC 21, I now have the answer. I am going to name each hull; "THING 1" will be port and "THING 2" will be starboard.

That's a neat idea!? ... but what are you going to put down on registration forms as the boat name?


Jake Kohl
Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Jake] #39248
10/22/04 12:34 AM
10/22/04 12:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
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St Petersburg FL
Quote
That's a neat idea!? ... but what are you going to put down on registration forms as the boat name?

Thing one and two?

Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Jake] #39249
10/22/04 06:24 AM
10/22/04 06:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
Pooh-Bah
arbo06  Offline
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South Florida & the Keys
Thing 1 & Thing 2 of course. You will like them Sam I Am.


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: arbo06] #39250
10/22/04 07:44 AM
10/22/04 07:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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I don't know, but it sounded to me like the story was just written by a sailor in the race, not by a newspaper reporter. Most of the stories in my magazine are written by sailors who participated in an event. What is the difference between a beach-cat sailor referring to a big mononull as a "lead sled" and a big-boat sailor referring to a beach-cat as a "gnat"?

And the reason why big monohulls feel like the beach cats are "bugging" them is probably because when they are in the same race and both boats are racing and they are crossing paths, it is a little unnerving for the big boats if they are going to have to give way to a little tiny boat. It's a whole lot more work to tack a big boat with 20 people on board than it is for a catamaran with one or two people. And the greatly disparate speeds make it even more difficult for a big boat to know what to do and to react in time.

And it is also unnerving to the catamarans, because they are never really sure whether the big boat is going to give way, if challenged.

Personally, I go by the big-boat rule -- in most cases it is better to think of them as obstacles (big "things") and just dodge around them and tell them to hold their course. By the same token, you don't usually have to worry about a big monohull luffing you up if you are passing to windward -- they want you past and gone as soon as possible.

Some of the comments in this thread made it sound as though the beach cats were actually racing against the big boats. If so, that should not be allowed to happen. Beach cats should be in their own category, no matter how few of them. Otherwise, they will definitely not be welcome in the future.

Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Mary] #39251
10/22/04 08:13 AM
10/22/04 08:13 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
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If the big boats aren't in my class, I'll give way to them, and let them hold course. But if, for some odd, weird reason I'm in the same class as a 40' keelboat (talk about screwed up) you'd better believe I'd assert my rights.

In PHRF racing, I've seen all kinds of "gnats" that "bother" the bigger boats. San Juan 21's making J/120's and Swan 45's alter course or emergency tack, even though they were in different fleets. I try to stay out of the big boys' ways when I'm zooming around though.

But as it relates to the article. I don't really think the guy is really badmouthing cats. And if he is, who cares. We've had this stygma for a while and if you haven't been introduced to it yet, consider yourself lucky. All we can do is behave like "yachtsmen" (and yachtswomen too!) and hope that one day all the "old blood" notions of beachcats will transpire like the bubonic plague.


Re: Catamarans get bad press (again) [Re: Mary] #39252
10/22/04 08:31 AM
10/22/04 08:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
The Mug race in Jacksonville lumps everyone together and breaks out one-design classes from there. The catamarans invariably rule that race although I understand that there may be some scoring changes for next year to compensate.

Largely, I agree with Mary - the boats are so disimilar that they really shouldn't be scored together even for line honors.


Jake Kohl
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