Hi all. I asked this question on the F16 forum but only got one reply. On my H17 the mainsheet must be released in order to ease (and sometimes sheet) the traveller and outhaul even when the mainsheet is not super tight. Both traveller and outhaul bearing seem to be ok and have recently been McLubed. The rearbeam on the H17 is curved upwards so the distrance from the boom to the traveller block increased as the traveller is eased. I've seen this happen before also on a H16 where the rear beam is straight. I'd appreciate others experience with this issue - is this problem specific to my boat, H17's, or most cats? Any way to fix it? It's a very inefficient way to sail...

Jerry

Jerry,
Hobie cat uses a fairly primitive traveler assembly for the 16 and 17. They are just not going to release well under load. On my old H 14 I bought a new traveler and then carefully wet sanded the inside of the track until it was smooth. It was marginaly sucessfull.
Good Luck
eric

ON the positive side, those tracks are great for rounding the weather mark.
As you approach the weather mark, totally release the traveler sheet. The tension on the main will keep it centered. Then, just as you round the mark, ease your main and the main and traveler will spill out quickly, allowing the boat to head down quicker without fighting the rudders.

That system worked great on the Hobie 18.
Rick

I had the same problem on my 17 - I would blow through at least one traveller car every season by moving it under load. I always kept a spare on the boat so I could switch out between races if I had to.

Since 1995, Hobie has been using an improved version of the traveller with larger diameter bearings. The catch is that it requires a deeper profile track. The deep profile track can be easily installed with just a drill and a pop-rivet tool.

Since I did the retrofit on my 17, I didn't have to replace the traveller car (about 2 yrs until I sold it) and it moved much better under load.

It's still not perfect, but it's class legal.

>>Hi all. I asked this question on the F16 forum but only got one reply.

I remember that posting. I thought at the time that I shouldn't forget about replying to it. Then that whole spitfire-aruba thread boomed and we went from one post to many others.

I short I'm sorry to say that in my experience you can forget about moving the traveller car under sheetload on pretty much all older Hobie designs. Meaning h14, H16, H17 and TheMightyHobie18. Maybe on some lakes it is better but overhere on the sandy beach with beach side parking. The damn things were always jammed. Come to think of it. The harken recirculating ball traveller seem to have problems as well. The stuff that works are the Prindle wheeled cars and the I-track traveller rails with stainless wheeled cars. Harken RC will work after you spend a few minutes cleaning the cars out. Hobie system were always "don't even try". Of course the newer Hobies likes Tigers, Foxes and FX-ones have the more modern setups and these RC systems do work with a little care.

Personally I would try to figure out a different methode of sailing with a spi on the H17 than was discussed on the F16 forum.

Sorry for not responding sooner.

Wouter

Personally, I prefer a traveler car that will stay put under load. Nothing worse to me than sheeting in and having the car come towards you instead of sheeting tighter. I find it pretty easy to crack the main a bit, travel and then sheet again.

On the bigger cats where a crew might use the traveler more, a smoother motion would be needed, but I don't think too many Hobie 16, 17 or 18 crews are or should be working the traveler upwind.

Jerry,

That vertical arc in the rear cross beam does discourage the traveler from moving outward when under sheet load. The fact that there is also no horrizontal arc in the track, to match the radius on which the mainsheet tackle is swinging around the mast, also discourages traveler movement.

Higher tech boats, such as a Marstrom, use an arched traveler track to solve this delema.

GARY

But with regards to the arched tracks...with a straight track (horizontally) and especially with the arched hobie beam, as you ease the traveller in a puff (if you can with the main sheeted), the geometry sheets in the main tighter - which is a nice combo for depowering.

As a pure speed issue, if there is not enough load on the main for the traveler to go down you should not be releasing the traveler.

>>On the bigger cats where a crew might use the traveler more, a smoother motion would be needed, but I don't think too many Hobie 16, 17 or 18 crews are or should be working the traveler upwind.

Ah yes, the moving the traveller thing while mainsheet is under load is mainly a spinnaker sailing thing. If you don't fly a spi than there are other ways to control the boat effectively. Also the systems have switched. Now the crew more often then not plays the mainsheet while the skipper hold on to the traveller sheet. This gives him an emergency control while the crew can fully concentrate on trimming the main continiously. On modern boats, with large squaretops, the mainsheet is too often to heavy to be played by the skipper anyway.


>>Nothing worse to me than sheeting in and having the car come towards you instead of sheeting tighter

Well I've got one for you that is definately worse. Having your mainsheet car stuck on the rearbeam during a spi run with gusts and having to decide wether you are going to bend or break your mast by releasing the mainsheet OR capsize spectaculary and bend / break something in your body.

But honestly; like you said H16,H17 and TheMightyHobie18 don't really need a smooth traveller when they are sailed as intending during their design stage.

Regards,

Wouter

Thanks everybody for the great input. Glad to know it's not just my boat. I orginally asked the question primarily in the context of needing to ease the traveller for a spi (ie, if I were to add a spi I wouldn't be able to do that!). Without a spi, using the current setup works ok for upwind/downwind runs since you know exactly where to set the traveller at the top or bottom mark and then just sheet in and leave it. If you want to quickly dial in something in-between and optimize it so you have the right traveller setting for your intended course it's a bit of an interative procedure unless you get lucky. It would be optimal to be able to rough set the traveller, sheet in, and then fine tune the traveller under load (followed by fine tuning of the mainsheet) but instead I have to go back to squalre one and ease the mainsheet before moving the traveller which is real slow (although I can sometimes trim in the traveller under load if the mainsheet isn't too tight).

Wouter, you said "But honestly; like you said H16,H17 and TheMightyHobie18 don't really need a smooth traveller when they are sailed as intending during their design stage." - does the method I'm currently using confrom to "sailed as intended" or is there a better way to do this?

Thanks,

Jerry

>Wouter, you said "But honestly; like you said H16,H17 and TheMightyHobie18 don't really need a smooth traveller when they are sailed as intending during their design stage." - does the method I'm currently using confrom to "sailed as intended"
or is there a better way to do this?


Let me put it this way :"Do you have a choice ?"

Apparently during the design stages it was not envisioned that the main traveller would be moved while supporting the mainsheet tension.

But don't worry to much Jerry. I've seen plenty of crews go blindingly fast on these platforms. You just have to find out the optimal setting and remember it. Again, we all started playing our travellers only with the introduction of the spinnakers. In addition. The squaretop mainsails seem to want more precise mainsheet tension to perform optimally. I hate to loose such a setting only to handle a gust. This was the reason why I was experimenting with using the traveller on the upwind as well. This reason this discussion was held on the F16 forum. But your H17 should be less critical in this as well. Your go fast trim settings are set by other controls.

Your current approach looks awfully like the one I used on boats that didn't feature a smooth traveller.

Wouter

Thanks Wouter. And yes, the boat is very fast and quite easy to quickly dial in upwind and downwind (though you've got to put it through its gears).