Help--need "Legal" advice! Last summer we had one of those microburst storms on our beach.The boats that were not tied down were thrown on other cats & damaged them. The rule on our beach is "tie your boat down at all times", it's in the contract we have to sign every year. Some boat owners are refusing to pay others, blaming this on an act of God. But it clearly is their negligence -- had they tied the boats down no damage would have occurred. None of the tied down boats moved!

Does anyone know what the legality is here? Who is liable in this case? If not legally liable, ethically & morally?

I'm interested to hear qualified opinions & experiences.

Wow, Catwoman. Bummer. I'm not surprised about the microburst, but I am surprised about the attitude of your fellow fleet members. Our Fleet (wnycatmaran.org) has been hit a few times by these storms and you're right, those Cats start flying. It seems that since we moved to a new location a few years ago that forces you to drive up a five foot incline, everyone now ties their boats, but those of us with Trailex trailers (there has to be at least a dozen in our Fleet) have even seen the trailers go for a walk.

How about some leadership from the Commodore and the Directors? Couldn't they organize a repair party on one day to do all the Gelcoat work? It doesn't sound like that kind of tossing would actually split a hull to irreperable damage, but I'm sure you could get a mast bent;. Our Fleet requires every boat to be insured, but most of us do not contact our insurance companies for small things under $1,000.

Let me know what happens...If your Fleet members are still rude, move up here with us; we'd love to have you. Of course, we only sail five months of the year, but we do have skiing to keep us busy.

Wyatt

Somewhat off topic for this discussion, but look at this picture (snatched off the Australian Tornado Assoc. website at http://www.aussailing.com.au/tornado/).

To tie down is cheaper than using your insurance..

I know nothing about your laws, but it does seem unreasonable refusing to take part in repairs.

If someone's boat got tossed into the air and smashed into the ground because of a micro-burst, it is an "act of god" and subject to that clause (if it exsits as an exclusion) in the insurance policy...i.e. the insurance company may not cover the damages unless your policy covers "acts of god". HOWEVER, I'm pretty sure that if the same owner was negligent in some way (like not securing his boat from flying into the air in such a scenario) any damage done to other boats is no longer an act of god but is a liability issue - and even home owner's and renter's policies should cover this. They won't cover the boat that flew through the air but they should cover the damage inflicted upon others.

Thanks for the replies!

I agree that the storm is an "Act of God", but (on the other side) each boat owner was required by contract with the Park District to tie down their boats at all times which many ignored. In effect, they are using the "Act of God" as an excuse for their own negligence. An "Act of God" can and should be foreseen and efforts should be made to ameliorate the negative effects of it.In this particular storm, damages were substantail, anything from completely broken masts to smashed hulls. I might add that NONE of the boats that were firmly anchored moved, so this was a completely preventable accident.

Our problem was that in this particular case the perpetrators (the ones inflicting damage and refusing to pay for it) should have known better (they were the commodore of our local sailing association.

I just wondered how such disputes are handled in your local sailing communities.

I'd love to hear from more sailors on this issue. Thanks!!!

Here is another picture....

and, since it's so much fun, here's another...

It is precisely because of "Acts of God" that sailors are required to tie down their boats. Right? So that is not a valid excuse.

If they signed a contract that required them to tie down their boats, then I would presume they are legally bound by it. Did the contract further specify that they would be responsible to pay for any damages inflicted by their boats if not tied down properly?

Regardless, if they were in breach of the contract, it seems obvious that the park (if that is who the contract was with) would not allow them to keep a boat there any more.

And, as Jake said, one would think that the damages would be covered by the homeowners policies of the owners of the boats that caused the damages.

Sometimes the only recourse is to go to small claims court. I realize it is a difficult situation, not wanting to make enemies within the club -- but that is going to be the case anyway, so why not let it be decided by the law? That's what we do when we have conflicts in sailboat racing, and we accept the verdicts, and we all manage to still be friends.

Thankfully I haven't witnessed anything like that, but have been caught in a pretty powerfull thunderstorm on a beach filled with boats. Luckily none of them went airborn. What do folks use to tie their boats down?

Perhaps the whole reason the "non tieing down" parties are not willing to pay up is that they realise they have breached the T+C of the "park" and so do not want to admit liability.

I think there are a number of problems here :

1, Which boat did damage to Which other boat ? - You can have some ideas, but you cannot prove it.
2, As you cannot prove which boat did what damage, how will you be able to apportion blame (and so cost)
3, No insurance company will take a part of the cost, just because the boat they insured did some of the damage. Unless all those people that had a boat blow away are all insured with the same company - not vey likley is it ?





Ask them all to pay up a fixed % each (10 boats blow away, 10% each) right now out of their own money and if they don't or won't tell them you will be issuing proceedings and do they really want the whole area to know they were stupid enough not to tie their boats down. (they may not want to pay as from those pictures, it looks like there is a few write off hulls there). Thus expensive.

The problem is that if it was to go to court, you would have to get all those responsible for the boats there and then get something inforced.


Given that one of the idiots is the commadore of a local club, the threat of a name-and-shame might be enough.

Thanks, Mary, for yoyr input which I value very much, after having read your credentials!

On the insurance issue, I'm not so sure. I think a lot of homeowner's insurance policies don't cover this, probably because the boat is not in your backyard...Anyway, I've heard from people that the insurance company added an extra rider on the policy for maritime equipment. Or they ask to take out a separate marine insurance policy.

To answer your question, Scooby:

Our Park District (that runs the sailing beach) immediately dispatches employees to take photos right after a storm for just that purpose. See my photos above. That way the individual boat owners know who is at fault and can settle disputes. I have seen the damage myself, and it is very easy to assess if your boat is firmly anchored and hasn't budged, and another boat landed on yours and crushed your mast or hulls. You know where the other boat's coming from, and you can see it wasn't tied down to anything.

Our Park District provides metal posts that go down into the sand several feet. People are supposed to tie their boat to the post at the front crossbar or dolphin striker. In addition some of us (the responsible ones) bury a car tire or cement block into the sand and tie down the sides or the stern of the boat also.

Such offenders would have to explain themselfs for the Club board overhere and would most likely loose their membership and beach parking as a result. At least till the time that they had payed for the damages. The reasoning would be that they willingly broke the club rules and now have to pay for it. Club rules are there to be obeyed.

Also by law everybody overhere must have a liability insureance and these must pay what ever the reason it is that causes an item owned by a person to cause damage to person or property of another. The purportrator will then get punished by losing his no-claim discout on this insurreance. As good as always this satisfies all parties.

Wouter

Only one sure way to secure beach parked boats.

Get an old tire, block of concrete or a piece of 2 by 4 and dig a deep hole in the sand. Throw the groundanker in with a line securely attached and fill the hole again. Tie your boat of to that. Best is one anker on either side of the sidestays this prevents the boat from stamping and rotating about as well.

Wouter

Thanks Wouter--

Many of us are anchoring our boats with cement blocks on at least 3 points. We've gone so far as to anchor our negligent neighbors' boats by similar means--not because we're nice, but because we want our boats to be safe!

Actually, you'll probably be surprised what kind of liability a home owner's policy covers. Mine has a clause in it that it will cover liability for an unpowered boat under 21' in length...a rare BONUS in a policy! Regardless, home owner insurance policies cover liability of the home owner - not just the house itself. If the home owner was liable then the insurance covers them minus their deductable. I have first hand experience in this matter!

When I left my Hobie 18 on the beach, we burried two cinderblocks about four feet deep and ran a long stainless steel cable around the blocks several times and both ends up out of the sand. We then attached it around the main beam with a lock. It was both a means of security, high tide, and storm damage prevention.

Well, I just find it appalling that some members of our local sailing association are refusing to pay the damage their boat caused. This has cast a pall over the season before it even starts.

When the owner of the damaged boat complained both to the club and the Park District (after numerous unsuccessful attempts to collect from the boat owner, the former commodore), he was chastised by both organizations for doing so and publicly shaming the offenders by name, and for airing out his "private issues" in public.

I personally think it's rotten, as both the club and the Park District are shirking responsibility. The club for having unsportsmanslike members, and the Park District for never enforcing their rules.

If you are fortunate enough to have a place where you can keep cats on the beach, mast up, all season, I would think you would have a long waiting list of people who want to get in there.

If so, I would think that in itself would be enough to motivate people to follow the rules so they can keep their spots on the beach.

It is probably not a good idea to get the park officials in the middle of this dispute among the sailors, because you never know when the Park is going to say, "Hey, these sailboats are too much of a hassle -- let's not give them space here any more."

Where are you in relation to Chicago? What park?

Mary, the Park District is involved since the club's mailings are included in the Park District's annual renewal notices, giving the club their quasi support. They are also involved since they are setting the rules of requiring the owners to always tie down their boats. Unfortunately the Park District has not really been enforcing that rule.

And yes, I assume there is a waiting list. And yes, we are very fortunate to be able to keep our boats on the beach all summer (and winter, if needed).

We are on the north shore of Chicago.