You are correct.

Also you provide a great basis for a mind experiment.

If outward canting of 7.5 degrees is walking away from a conventional boat, than what would be de benefit of canting 6 degrees the opposite way ? If anything this would favour the conventional boat again.

Or if this is just one of many rumours as the sailing scene is awash off and the performance of the conventional design and the 7.5 degree outward canted were the same than how would the 6 degree inward canting behave relatively to the conventional design ? The same, indeed.

Either path leads to the same end conclusion the conventional hull design will remain competitive relative to the inward canted one.

Or look at it from this way if outward canting didn't hurt the performance relative to the conventional design then how on earth can 6 degree inward canting be a significant improvement ? Afterall the conventional design appears as being 7.5 degree inward canted to the outward canted design.

You guys still follow me ?

Wouter

I realize I am probably in the minority here, but personally I greatly apppreciate the detail Wouter provides when responding to these sorts of issues.

I agree that he could often organize his thoughts better to make it easier for people to get to the essence of what he wants to say. But let's not forget that polishing any document to make it easy to read takes a certain amount of time. When you consider the volume of stuff that Wouter is expected to respond to here on virtually a daily basis when he presumably has other things going on his life, I don't think we should be too quick to demand more of him.

Perhaps someone would like to volunteer to occasionally write a summary of the more detailed discussions for the benefit of those less interested in the minutiae.

Mark.

Steve



I think if you read the rules, the Waterline length is to be measured when the boat is stationary.

Guys ENOUGH ! you need to get out sailing more ! unless your all at home hacking your hulls about to fit canted daggerboards STOP IT ! we need to be sharing sailing/tuning tips so that any prospective F16 sailors can see that we are pro-active sailors and not "sliderule geeks" I know whats going to happen when i ask this question - loads of theoretical crap - but who thinks Tramp bags are better than pole mounted snuffers? and apart from the Stealth have ant other F16s got "T Foil" rudders ?

Mike "Sneaky" GBR 513

"I think if you read the rules, the Waterline length is to be measured when the boat is stationary."

In that case, in order to sail FAIRLY to your ISAF rating, you`d need to remain stationary for the duration of the race !

Hey Mike,
CANT agree more with you ! I`ll be going sailing this weekend, just to stop me from posting so much.

On the tramp bag vs snuffer issue, I`ve had both. On a boat with spreaders, diamond wires, 2 trapeze wires and other fiddly bits I damaged my spinnaker much more by bag launching than by snuffing.
Another advantage of snuffing is you can hoist on port tack, take down on stbd, then hoist again on port. Try that with a bag. The mast kinda gets in the way. I used to be the idiot on keelboats that never saw the upwind leg of a race, too busy repacking spinnakers down below, unclipping tack,clew & head from lines, running them round the bow and reconnecting just in time for the next downwind leg.

Dave White and crew won the F16 Nationals here in the U.S., and he was the only one using a tramp bag instead of a snuffer (only because we don't have a snuffer). That does not necessarily mean anything one way or the other. Dave did feel that the takedowns and sets seemed to be a bit faster with the bag than with the snuffers. And, of course, there is less windage.

This really should have been made a separate thread.

Wow this Forum is amazing. I haven't found any other class forum with so many postings. Anybody would think there were some frustrated sailors out there to cold to sail?

Can't help but put in my two bobs worth though. Even though I will be sailing this weekend. Jealous?

Can't make it scientific though, I am a seat of the pants sailor.
In my opinion canted hulls are trying to achieve a vertical hull in the water whilst the platform heels. Benefit? Hull shape was designed to be vertical in water? Especialy if it was designed with a flat bottom to plane, Flyer?. Leeward side of hull has more resistance to drift sideways if vertical ie. Hobie 16 hulls.

Canted centre boards is a different issue, angling inwards allows the pressure on the leeward side to act upwards as well as the normal sideways, giving some lift. As Wouter says it is questionable if it could be enough to make a difference. Altered being a modified A has canted out hulls, so actualy gets less vertical lift from it's centreboards, when the platform is heeled than your conventional platforms which cant? the centreboards as soon as you heel.

As usual all this is not new, it has been noticed before in sailing. In 1982 racing open class sailboards we found by depressing the leeward rail (heeling the hull),it would initiate the centreboard pushing upwards and with practice balancing the forces it would help lift the sailboard onto the "plane" earlier than if they were kept flat. But you are working with centreboards that were much larger as a percentage to hull size and weight than we are on F16's. So the advantages would be much harder to gain on a F16 and the angles were much greater than a few degrees.

It must be remembered here we are not A classes our minimum weight is much higher. As I have found with my altered A, it no longer acts or feels like an A, in light winds the A's get up and going much earlier. F16's will not benifit from these innovations? as much if at all, as our weight makes these improvements? far less noticeable. Anyway time to go to bed so I can go sailing tomorrow.

Regards Gary.