I would love to come to your home and go through the results Mary BUT, I cant find the time table for the local bus route to get from Adelaide in South Australia to Key Largo!!!!!

I can say that we averaged slightly over 15knots from Islamorada to Tybee Island last year and got to use our chutes most of the way. However, I was pretty surprised that our peak speeds were around 20 to 21knots....but then again, we were sailing in anything BUT flat water and the GPS was probably not recording data points fast enough to record the blast off trip down the face of each 4 to 6' swell at those kind of speeds.

Fastest speeds in the W are going to be close reach legs w/the wind off the beach, not spinnaker runs. Smooth water w/high velocity.

Think 2002 W1k last two days.

In 1983, sailing a Tornado 'classic', I set the (still unbeaten) record time of 57mins for a 20+ mile all-in race run by Benfleet Y C called the Nore race. Conditions were 3-5 NW, giving us two long reaching legs, two broad reaches and one beat. my calcs are usually rubbish but I think we averaged around 23knots? We spent a bit of the first broad reach leg busting through the earlier cruiser start (it didn't take long) and had to heave-to for about two minutes at one point on the upwind leg to pop the main back on the halyard lock. I KNOW that 25 knots + is possible in F18 and bigger and would not be surprised at figures of 33 knots being quoted (but not for long periods)

only 20 more posts to go to get rid of the 'stranger' tag.

Sorry, 19

The four W1000 records and two Tybee records we own were spin runs averaging around 19. Sea state definately slows you down.

In last year's C-100, we had almost that for a little bit. After rounding Bloody Point, we got into the lee of a flat island while the wind was still pumping from the East. The wind was still way up while the sea state was better there, but still up as well. Close reach, main only (jib rolled up), double trapped at the back to bows up, still getting fire-hosed. The GPS read max speed for the day was 19.99 knots, and it turned itself off some time during that leg.

Pic is from the start, in protected areas...

Steve,

Perhaps the reason the topic always seems to dilute, degrade, get lost is the lack of proof. On your request, I stepped up to the plate and gave evidence of my proof.

Now my numbers are not as grandiose as some others' claims, but mine are real. And mine definitely show that sailing in the ocean is much different than on a protected waterway that enjoys both flat water and unrestricted flow aloft.

The real world can be a challenging place and I am showing what I have been able to do in the ocean. Those guys who crossed the atlantic in 13.5 days deserve more than to be called slow. But there RECORD pace proves that you don't sustain 20 or 30 knots for very long.

Yes I would have been faster at times with less weight. There are times when more cantilevered ballast would be helpful too. But you just do what you can do at the moment.

Attached is a picture of a 20 nautical mile track across the Anacapa Passage and the Santa Barbara Channel. It crosses through the mild end of a place locally known as "Windy Lane."

The (blue) highlighted portion of the track is 15.7 nautical miles and was covered in 1:18:40 hours. Average speed is 12 knots. Now I'll describe the conditions and point of sail:

There were two of us on a Mystere 6.0 (narrow model). We had a soaking wet heavy spinnaker on deck. We had about 80 pounds of supplies. We had 25 knot wind on the beam with 4-5 foot steep combined seas striking us from abeam, that would forbid every attempt whatsoever to hike out beyond the gunwale. The jib was furled. We sailed "main only" with the main traveler eased fully or almost fully. The downhaul was fully hardened and the mainsheet hardened nearly to maximum.

Twice during the run (you can see the deviations) we had to head off to capture and rescue a cargo bag that had escaped its hold-down and was skipping under the trampoline, pulled by its safety tether.

I made this crossing with two other cats. The Inter 20 sailed it with the jib sheet cast off and jib flailing. The Hobie 18 sailed it with a furled jib and endured one capsize; after which he sailed "jib only."

Five of the six sailors were 15+ year catamaran veterens. All six sailors said that it was the wettest ride of their lives. When you can't get out on the trapeze, EVERY bow strike is a powerful blow of heavy water to the face. This slows the boat damatically as the "face brakes" work to rob power.

GARY

Gary, That's not one of the crossings I envy you for!

Gary,
I think you misinterpreted the intent of my last message - No disrespect to anyone who dares to sail to a piece of land further than that which they can see from their home shore !
As you say, real world experience sailing in the open ocean in difficult seas will obviously limit your average speed potential. Just as real world flatwater sailing in good winds will raise that potential. My original question was just put out there to ask if anyone has experiences which contest the theory that the fastest beach-cat recorded speed could possibly be around 23knots, as I`ve seen this speed averaged over a 24nm race. No GPS required, the proof is in the total distance covered and the elapsed time. What`s more is that the wind was probably no more than 18knots at any time in that race.
I`m not asking for absolute proof, we`re having an informal discussion, and I don`t think anyone is going to submit the results to the WSSRC for ratification.
Once again, no disrespect intended. My little joke about you losing the 100lbs of gear and one 200lb men was just that, a joke. It would most certainly not have improved your speed in that crossing, unless the wind was 12knots and the water was flat (ironically you might have posted a better average speed in these conditions.) Catamarans tend to get slower, the faster they go !!

Steve

I don't trust GPS max speeds. My GPS has clocked me doing 35mph and it's just not true. I'm not sure why perhaps because it swings around when I have it on me.

I do trust the constant readout of the GPS of course I think it is very accurate. Here are two runs that I've made below.

1. Hobie 20 Double trapped reaching in about 18 mph winds. My GPS consistently read 23mph.
2. 2003 Steeplechase. Double trapped chute run on the second day. I had the courage to look at my GPS a couple of times. We were reading a consistent 25mph. However if you look at the point to point times they won't read that fast. The Steeplechase has to wind through some cuts in the mangroves and some shallows which really slows teams down.

If you can find the times for the Worrell in 2001 for the first two legs you probably will get a decent top speed for a cat in open conditions without a chute. Perhaps someone that has done the Worrell or Tybee can chime in with a day that they thought was particularly fast.

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com

2001 Chesapeake 100; I recorded a high of 19.6 kts or 22mph on my H20. Very close reach with 20+ mph in wind. The waves were front of beam, so no surfing. From glances at the gps along the way, I know we stayed near that speed for quite a stretch. I know the boat will go faster, but that's all I've recorded so far. Problem is the faster you go, the less likely you are to read your gps.

I like an earlier idea of having regatta organizers lay out buoys at a known distance apart (that part may be a bit challenging in itself) on a reach and have fun races for top speed on Saturday after the buoy races. Wind permitting, it would be fun for crews and those on shore. Someone who got spanked all day might redeem themselves a little by getting a high speed measure.

David
H20 781

Well I think we have the perfect venue for a speed event here at Texas City - a 5 mile dike perpendicular to the prevailing wind which does not reduce wind speed but completly flattens the water.

A bunch of us have GPS units with water proof bags. All we need now is a stiff southerly breeze - which may be forthcoming in the spring.

If we get anything over 20 knots we'll report back.

Chris.

I`m spending too much time on the net lately, this is what I found on the write-up on the Miami-Key Largo Race, on Catsailor.com :

"Bill Roberts holds the race record set in 1990 in a custom-built RC-27 of his own design. Race time, one hour and 44 minutes! That's a 26-knot average over the 43-mile course. To average 26 knots, you have to sail over 30 knots most of the time!"

Ok, so it`s a wee bit BEEEGER than a Tornado.

If you are figuring speed in terms of knots, don't you have to have the overall distance of the race in terms of nautical miles?

I'm really not sure whether the distances given for distance races are statute miles or nautical miles -- I always assumed they were statute miles. Anyway, it would make a difference, wouldn't it? If they are statute miles, the average speed would be in miles per hour rather than knots.

It was a blast! Very fun, exciting.

GARY

Statue of Liberty race: 37 statute miles round trip thru Sandy Hook Bay and New York Harbor. Record set in 1992 by Mystere 6.0 and equaled in 2003 by a Nacra 6.0 NA. 2hrs 45 mins. That’s only 13.5 mph or 11.7 kts.

Real life conditions do make a big difference!!

Statue Race 2005 is on July 3rd, Come join us!!

www.fleet250.org

Phil Danbe

43 miles

1 hr 44 mins (104 mins)

Distance per minute

43 / 104 = 0.413462 miles per minute

0.413462 * 60 minutes = 24.80769231 miles per hour

24.80769231 / 1.1 (to convert to knots) = 22.55244755

QED

QED, NOT.
One international nautical mile is equivalent to 1.151 statue miles.

Teach me to do things in a hurry....

Sorry...you are correct

Result should be 21.55729613 Kts