I have enjoyed reading most of the debate on the NAHCA's X boat policy(I think the name calling is unnecessary). I think it shows that we all have different opinions, but no one is right, no one is wrong. The NAHCA has every right to dictate what they want to do at their regattas, and if we don't like if, too bad. Do what Americans have always done, vote with our dollars. I suspect that this "Hobiecentric" view does not excist in most areas, and therefore will not affect the racing. However, if it does and we are treated as second class citizens at Hobie regattas, I will simply spend my time and money elsewhere. Personally, I think that Hobie is shooting themselves in the foot. I think that having an open class adds and strengthens regattas. I know many of the Hobie sailors and enjoy them on and off the water. It would be too bad if that ended, but it is their class and their races.

I do not think anyone has read the acual report that was in BarbShort's post. It says that the propsal is for GUIDELINES for the fleets to follow, not rules or laws. The proposal is how to include other boats, not exclude, in a way that best promotes Hobie racing and to help standardize the regattas.



Here is the proposal.



"The x-class should be only one start for all non-Hobie boats.

This start can be fit into the start sequence at a place which

best promotes good sailing for all the classes. This includes the beginning Hobie 16 sailors (b and c fleet) so they do not get stuck with one-lap races while x-class boats are doing three and four lap races. The X-class must provide a scorer to figure out handicaps and do the handicap scoring; this may include some one to take times at the finish. But all area championships should be Hobie only events. The NAHCA should search out and work with fleets willing to host these area championships."



It is very general and spells out away to include other boats for everyone to follow. There are a couple of reasons for trying to get everyone doing the same thing. Both equally important. NAHCA has always strived for a standard racing format throughout the region. There are standard sailing instructions and courses. By doing this racers could expect a certain quality of racing that would not necessarily happen at other events. They would also know what to expect, because everyone is on the same page. The guidelines are aimed at keeping the regattas similar in format across the region. They are also trying to include everyone while still proting Hobie Cat racing. Now don't everyone jump all over me because the North American HOBIE Class Association is trying to promote HOBIE Cat Racing. If it doesn't promote Hobie racing than who will. The Tornado class, it focuses on Tornados, the A Class , it focuses on A class cats, NAMSA or USSailing Multihull Council, their focus is multihull sailing in general.



In conclusion, those who are stating that NAHCA is trying to exclude everybody are a flat out wrong. They are trying to include evereyone without destroying their classes. Only five or regattas out of the hundreds sanctioned by NAHCA are Hobie only. It is a lot easier for some people to look in from outside the NAHCA and say that NACHA does not welcome us because the NAHCA does not let us race the way we want to, than it is for these individuals to run their own events their way.

Rob-

I read the post. But I apparently "read it" a little different (ie. interpreted it differently) from you. You indicate the post is "how to include other boats, not exclude" but the post says: "But all area championships should be Hobie only events. The NAHCA should search out and work with fleets willing to host these area championships." The terms "all" and "Hobie only" are pretty specific, although I admit "should" is not "will be". But it is this type of terminology that is leading some people to feel this post is exclusive rather than inclusive.

Also, the stipulation that there "should be only one start for all non-Hobie boats" is also exclusive, NOT inclusive- it states essentially that NO Hobie shall start with ANY "non-Hobie" and regardless of how many, or varied, the "non-Hobies" are they "should" be kept to one start. Is the assumption then that all Hobies will get their own one-design class start? So I guess if I had shown up at the last Dallas regatta with my Hobie 14 turbo I would have gotten to race---- WHO? There was a Hobie Getaway there and ALL the other Hobies (to the best of my memory) were 18's (a few), 16's and 20's. Would the Getaway and I even get to race against each other? How would we do this as "one designs"? If we race each other then we would be a "Hobie handicap" fleet and now the Dallas Hobie Fleet WOULD have to "provide" a person to keep times, right? Or would we each start by ourselves and sail around the course by ourselves, just in the name of "one designess"?? I don't think that will really support Hobie OR cat sailing in general.

So please clarify how NAHCA proposes to handle my Hobie 14 turbo, the Hobie 14, the Wave, the Trifoiler, Hobie 18SX, Hobie 17sport, Hobie 21, Hobie 18 magnum, Hobie 11, Hobie 33, Hobie 25, Hobie Hawk, (Should I really keep going??), etc. that show up at the next "Hobie" regatta all with one boat each?



Kirt-

(Also Prindle 15 and 18 as well as the Hobie 14t).

Kirt,



I read this the same way. Several fleets have read this "suggestion" the same way that you and I have. I got an email from a sailor that now feels unwelcome at the local beach now. Yes, he sails an I20 and the "tried and died Hobie loyal have run him off". NACHA's "suggestion" has caused me to put the H20 up on the block. Why should I sail the slowest 20 foot boat out there? Why should I allow the maker to dictate who I can sail with? I guess I'm going to log some miles this season traveling to places where everyone is welcome.



Steve

Kirt,

Thank you for asking for clarification in a respectful manner. It is much nicer to discuss topics this way.



In regards to the events that are "Hobie only" there are five. And as I mentioned there are over 100 events sanctioned by the NAHCA. This is not by any means excluding x-class from an over welming number of events. It basically comes down to 1 event in 20 that is not open to every one. This is to give the Hobie Class a more prestigious event and is suppose to be larger than the average regatta. If you look at other classes many of them have championships that no other class is invited to. Unlike monohulls the racing cicuit is run predominately by Hobie fleets, in monohulls it is run by yacht clubs. Most yacht clubs run races for a number of different classes and open handicap fleets of some sort. But a few decide to run regattas with limited classes. This is what NAHCA is trying to do. But as soon as they dare try to be like the rest of the sailing communtiy, they are called racist, or exclusive and many other mean and nasty things.



The area championships are not being forced down anyones throat. The local fleet has the choice to run the event or not. They can still run an open event, it may not be an area championship. The NAHCA is not trying to dictate to anyone how to run their events. Just like hosting a Worlds or National Championship, there are requirements for running an area championship.



As far as the x-class itself, it is purely a misunderstanding. If the race committee and the sailors want to race their Hobie in the x-class that is up to them. The guideline is suppose to eliminate starts for individual classes that are not Hobie Cats. This again is to give a reason to sail a Hobie instead of something else.



I think this policy invites everyone to come, race, and enjoy the "Hobie way of Life", and encourages them to do it on a Hobie. I hope this explains the policy a little better, and clarifies things for you.

Hi Rob



Thank you for your continuing explanations of the NAHCA point of view. I appreciate the clarity you bring to the discussion. You asked several questions and I wanted to respond in seperate threads.



You asked. Is It Evil for NAHCA to create and support their current philosophy. No, absolutely not. I acknowledge you, Rich McVeigh, Jim Glanden for your support, time and effort in making cat racing happen. I appreciate your thoughtful responses and hope that our debate will inform NAHCA and OPEN sailors rather then fire each camp up. I would like to explain my point of view explaining why NAHCA is responsible for my upset and the upset that we see in the cat racing community.



NAHCA elected Rich McVeigh based on his agenda. He coined the phrase Hobie Centric in the NAHCA newsletter and then failed to define what he meant. I believe that it was intellectually dishonest to toss this empty phrase out without explaining what he meant to the sailors (Hobie and Non Hobie) who have been supporting NAHCA events AND JOINING NAHCA. Hobie centric philosophy redefined open class as the X class. It was insulting to me and the many open sailors to relabel the open class “the X class”.



You wrote:

As far as the x-class itself it is purely a misunderstanding. If the race committee and the sailors want to race their Hobie in the x-class that is up to them. The guideline is suppose to eliminate starts for individual classes that are not Hobie Cats. This again is to give a reason to sail a Hobie instead of something else.



The working group had suggested that X class be forced to join the NAHCA organization in order to race This would force open sailors to choose racing with an organization that proposed policies which relegate them to second class status or not racing with them (See Chris Brown’s point). The clear message is:



NAHCA ‘s Goal is to use their monopoly to force or persuade sailors to race a Hobie. (This is now clear to all sailors)



The Reality is that NO CONSENSUS of the Hobie fleet leadership could be arrived at with respect to how best to achieve this goal. (your task force report)



The Outcome or result of implementing Hobie-centric policy were guidelines to fleets and not rules or ultimatums. (your task force report)



The good news (I think) is that Div 11 appears to have changed nothing for the upcoming season. (Jim Glanden’s Div 11 report via email to the task force)



You noted that “only 4 events will be Hobie only and this was not forced on anyone”. With all due respect, you are trying to spin this now as an endorsment of “X class is welcome” Most readers of NAHCA’s policies get the message however. Open class racers are wearing a scarlet letter... X for the X class, Their feelings of being second class citizens at some events is now canonized as a policy suggestion but not a current rule. Hobie racers (Kip and several others) get the NAHCA message as well and support your viewpoint. Open and several other hobie racers reject this viewpoint. A huge question is just how much support there is among NAHCA membership for the underlying NAHCA goal.





The result has been an absolute mess. Most of the Open class sailors refuse to be identified as Class X. They get that they are not wanted and your statement of ... Well indeed they are invited or welcome despite our underylying goal is unbelievable. Officially tolerated seems a better description of NAHCA policy. Local fleets will feel the impact of NAHCA policy if as Chris Brown suggests… Hey… we can vote with our feet.



In summary, is it evil or “racist” to propose and implement this policy. No. but it was dishonest to not define Hobie centric, and it was insulting to label a group of racers with an X.

Finally, NAHCA Policy has managed to drive a large number of people towards creating a new organization, NAMSA . Why is this good for NAHCA?…. Will loosing the dissenting voices make NAHCA better? I am not convinced that cat racers are well served here by two organizations. I would much rather have seen NAHCA redefine their mission to promote all one design cat racing in North America.



I just wanted to get this off my chest and finish this part of the debate. We may not agree on this issue but I think our clear descriptions of the two points of view are helpful to the casual cat racer.



Thanks and Take Care

Mark

NAHCA Logic does not protect a one design fleet.



Rob said

“I think that everyone would agree that they would like everyone else to sail the same boat that they do. Under this premise, and under the premise that the NAHCA has the largest classes, if the NAHCA provided one design racing for all classes equally it would be hurting itself and its classes. All the other sailors would be trying to persuade Hobie sailors to their class (as well as the other classes). These other sailors have already proven they do not want to sail a Hobie because the only way they would come to a Hobie event is if they could bring the boat they have, not buy a Hobie, therefore, It is more likely that Hobie sailors would switch to these other classes than the other way around. “



Your argument of why your strategy will protect your Hobie classes is flawed in several ways.



This argument is one which is made by the builder. It is in the self interest of the Builder alone to maintain a monopoly on racing which would be a competitive advantage for their marketing. This cannot be the point of view of any one design sailor in a Hobie class. For instance, If a Hobie 16 sailor of an active Hobie 16 fleet switches to a Hobie 18 for what ever reason. The one design Hobie 16 fleet has suffered a net loss of one sailor. This sailor is lost to your one design fleet no matter what boat he migrated to. Likewise, a Hobie 20 conversion will hurt your Hobie 16 one design class. The Hobie factory on the other hand is very pleased by the defection because they have sold another boat if the monopoly holds. Therefore, to use NAHCA logic... obviously you should not race Hobie 16's and Hobie 18's on the same venue, else they would steal from the other class.



Your argument might be. NACHA is preserving the Hobie 20 fleet by preventing other 19 to 20 foot boats from Tornado, Nacra and Prindle or Inter from pulling away a Hobie 20 fleet member. This argument is also specious because these boats and classes existed long before the Hobie 20 was introduced into this country and the Hobie 20 class grew successfully despite them. ( OR... Perhaps the class grew by cannibalizing the Hobie 18 and Hobie 16 fleets.) NOW, the Hobie Tiger will take direct aim on the Hobie 20 and Hobie 16 class members. Were NAHCA operating with any foresight, your organization would keep all of the sailors in the fold by adapting to the ever changing scene.



NAHCA would have a legitimate concern if hobie sailors saw and purchased a different builders boat and then stopped participating with the hobie fleets. The loss of a sailors willing to help run the organization would be bad in the long run. This has not been the experience though. Most open class racers willingly pitch in, volunteer and in some areas of the country are running the Hobie one design circuit.



In my view, this experience points to the fact that NACHA policy cannot stop the consumer from choosing the current hot boat. Secondly, NAHCA’s strategy for protecting your one design classes, makes no sense when looked at critically.



Perhaps I am unaware where you think your policy has worked or is working. You should point these out.



Should Hobie and Performance stop offering newer cats for the consumer/racer.... NO.... they are in buisness to satisfy the customer. I certainly want choice when I look for my next catamaran.



Take Care

Mark

Hi Mark,



I think wea re much closer to agreement on the x-class/open boat issue than you think. I think some of the semantics that were used and understood by those involved in the task force were misinterpreted by many outside that group. To us what we were talking about was obvious, but it wasn't obvious to everyone.



For instance I don't think Rich defined Hobie-centric because he thought the defintion was obvious. It means Hobie oriented or focused on Hobie as opposed focusing on multihull sailing in general. I am not sure where he said tha, but he was probably refering to the general direction the NAHCA should take. This means that the HOBIE Class Association should be focused on the Hobie classes. This does not mean that NAHCA intends to alienate all other sailors.



The other text that has caused much dismay (as you pointed out) is the term x-class. X-class was used in the policy as an unknown, almost an anti-label. We did not want to give the x-class a name in the beginning because we did not want to narrow the thought process. So we called X as in a variable. This goes back probably 10 or more years when the topic was first discussed, and the term just stayed. When we were discussing the topic we used the term because we understood what it was, and never gave any thought as to how it would be interupted by others. You can simply insert open class, open fleet, or portsmouth fleet and the policy would mean the samething.



Which brings me to the point where we basically agree. The local fleets will run there events how they see fit. Most will hopefully have one start for open boats and b & c fleeters will be sailing 2 leg races or at least not waiting around for hours while everyone else races. These are the sailors we should be trying to encourage the most. They are the new blood that we are trying to get into our sport. I have had several complaints from b and c fleet sailors in your area about this exact point. Very little will change, compared to last year, except there will be the 4 or 5 area championships that will be Hobie only events. Most of these were already Hobie only.



You say in your last post "NAHCA ‘s Goal is to use their monopoly to force or persuade sailors to race a Hobie." This is true, except the NAHCA is not using their monoply, they do not have one. The fleets make up their own minds. NAHCA may use its influece, but that is their job. If the class cannot persuade people to sail their boats, the fleets cannot persuade people as to what boats to sail, the manufacturers should stay out of it, becuase they just want to make money, then who is going to promote anything. The NAHCA is trying to promote the Hobie Classes and include sailors of other boats without alienating them. We wouldn't be having these discussioons if the NAHCA were trying to alienate all the other sailors. It is very difficult to balance, and is the reason we need another organization. It would take the pressure off the NAHCA and it could then be like any other one design organization.



So hopefully you don't and won't feel like a second-class citizen it is not our intention. It would be a waste of time to make provisions for including people in something and just piss them off. It is hard to convey everything in these posts. You forget a word, you write things one way while some else reads it another. All I can say is that we are not trying to alienate anyone and I appologize if the way the policy was written did so.



Rob Jerry

Thanks Rob



I certainly agree with you that writing about these issues is difficult. I learned something in the discussion.



I am keeping a very open mind about NAMSA and NAHCA. In principle I simply hate to see two groups created with many of the members (and people who actually do the work) in common. Moreover, the two groups are working towards the same goal, of growing cat racing. It just seems like a waste of effort. However, Yourself and Rick White are both making a strong case for a synergistic relationship between the two groups. My overwhelming concern was that NAMSA formation would be driven by a NOT NACHA motive and wind up competing with NACHA sponsored initiatves in some sort of silly and ultimately futile contest. I look forward to supporting both groups.



Take Care... wishing I could make down for the Tradewinds regatta. Have fun



Mark

But I'm actually starting to like the X-Class moniker. Has a little bit of that rogue-ish quality, and in the day of extreme-sport this and extreme-sport that, maybe it's not such a bad name. Could be a good way to rally dead-boats to race, and might even look good as a logo. Maybe NAHCA did us a favor! Now, if only we can all register at regattas as Racer-X.

I have heard enough of this "Spin" on what the "guidelines" said.

They where very clear and VERY specific.

Per Rob's first post in this thread:

"The x-class should be only one start for all non-Hobie boats."

This unequivocally states there there should be one and "only one" start for all X-boats. How can anyone say that statement is not exclusionary. Lumping people together based upon one feature is the very definition of prejudice. Why would an I20 come back if he knew he was going to be racing once around in the last start with a bunch of "dead boats". That "guidline" is CLEARLY rude, insulting, exculsionary, and does nothing to help cat sailing.

"The X-class must provide a scorer to figure out handicaps and do handicap scoring, this may include someone to take times at the finish".

DO WHAT? "MUST provide"! I want to see someone "spin" that statement into something "inclusive". It's like being invited to dinner, but you have to bring your own plates and silverware. How is that not treating someone "like a second class citizen"? Disgusting!.

Where does this crap come from about "B&C fleeters will be sailing two leg races or at least not waiting around for hours while everyone else races"? Don't use the X-boats as a scapegoat for that.

I have seen that happen in HOBIE only regattas. That is poor race management by the RC. The way to solve that problem is get an PRO that cares enough to figure out the relative speeds of boats and to simply have reverse order starts.

Don't use "quality of racing" as an excuse either. That is dependent on the Race Competence of the organizers. I have seen some very nice people run very poor regattas because they didn't take their job seriously.

As Commodore of Hobie Fleet 97, I felt "dirty" when I first read the "guidelines".

They ARE rude.

They ARE insulting.

They ARE exclusionary.

They ARE counter-productive to all cat sailing.

They ARE embarassing for those of us who have been asked to accept them.

As long as I am associated with NAHCA, I will ignore these "guidelines" and continue to apologize to my fellow SAILORS for this debacle.

SPIN THAT!!

Hi Sam,

I do not understand what this policy is excluding anyone from. If we did not make any provisions for them to race and said they couldn't, that would be exclusionary. The purpose of the guideline is to include non-hobies, orphan Hobies and everyone in more than 95% of all NAHCA regattas, and it does that. How would you make it more inclusive?



Nowhere in the guidelines does it say to only give open boats one lap races. It says "This start can be fit into the start sequence at a place which best promotes good sailing for all the classes. This includes the beginning Hobie 16 sailors (b and c fleet) so they do not get stuck with one-lap races while x-class boats are doing three and four lap races." It says to provide good racing for ALL THE CLASSES and not to forget about the 16 b and c fleets. Remember this is guideline to help people run there event, and yes the b and c fleeters waiting around is the RC's problem, and hopefully this will remind them that the b and c fleeters want to sail as much as everyone else.



One of the major objections to hosting an open fleet at a Hobie regatta was the scoring. Hobie fleets did not have portsmouth handicapping programs and did not want to do the scoring by hand. Therefore, requiring the open fleet to provide the corrected scores was put into the guidelines originally. The open boats sailors are not asked for anything else in terms of volunteering to help the event organizers or the class. Making sure they provided a scorer seemed like a minor demand. Secondly, in the 2 divisions I sail in most one portsmouth scorer does most of the portsmouth scoring for all events in that division. And lastly, I do not think it is rude to ask someone to bring something to the party.



This is another example of misinterpretation. I think by providing a fleet or class for boats to sail in is inclusive. You think that it is exclusive because we are grouping some boats together in one fleet or class. You state "They (the guidelines) ARE rude. They ARE insulting. They ARE exclusionary. They ARE counter-productive to all cat sailing. They ARE embarassing..." You do not explain why. I hope you take this post as an explanation and not a spin. If you do take it as a spin then there is no way to satisfy you , because you will automatically dismiss everything I write.

Mark,



I disagree - the new NAHCA policy is not formulated to enhance cat sailing. I think, rather, that it's designed to enhance the Hobie name and sales - all of which they are entitled to do (just don't expect to get my membership dues next year). I think that everybody is so bent out of shape because of the potential impact such a position could have on our sport.



I certainly hope that if NAMSA does come about that its mission is simply to embrace all cat sailors and help grow the sport in any way possible. There are more than a few dying NAHCA events that could benefit from having the blanket of a wide open organization step in to help. I, for one, don't want to see NAHCA disappear. They've played a huge role in the advance of cat sailing in the past and there is room for them in the future. I just fear that with the lack of participation in many events that grabbing the remaining members and sticking your tongue out at the x-boats (I like that name too!) is going to hurt the sport and NAHCA further.

SE > I will keep explaining it until you understand. Even though we both know you won't agree.



RJ >I do not understand what this policy is excluding anyone from. If we did not make any provisions for them to race

SE >"IF"? No "if" to it. That is EXACTLY what the "guidelines" state. By saying that the X_boats MUST provide their own timer and scorer, you are saying that the Hobie fleet WILL NOT "make any provisions for them to race".



RJ >The purpose of the guideline is to include non-hobies, orphan Hobies and everyone in more than 95% of all NAHCA regattas, and it does that.

SE >BULL!! It is excluding anyone who doesn't bring their own timer and scorer or make sure there is one at the regatta. How in the Hell does that encourage a newbie to just show up at a regatta and give a try? That guideline ensures that newbie Hobie owners will be helped and encouraged by the Hobie Fleet and that X boat newbie are shunned.



RJ > How would you make it more inclusive?

SE > By ignoring it.



RJ >It says to provide good racing for ALL THE CLASSES

SE > It means all the Hobie classes. It specifically states that there should be "only one start for all non-Hobie boats." doesn't it? Explain (spin?) to me how they are supposed to have "good racing" if you have a mixed group like I20s, A-Class, P16, G-Cat, etc all in the same start when everyone else is starting in similar groups? It's "inclusive" allright, it includes them all in one start.



RJ >And lastly, I do not think it is rude to ask someone to bring something to the party.

SE > It is rude to single out a person or group of people and REQUIRE THEM to bring something while no one else is REQUIRED to bring anything. Once upon a time blacks were REQUIRED to be property owners in order to register to vote.



RJ >The open boats sailors are not asked for anything else in terms of volunteering to help the event organizers or the class.

SE > My isn't that big of you. You assume that the Fleet or organization sponsoring the regatta has only Hobie members. What do you ask of the non-NAHCA Hobie sailors? What about the Hobie sailors who don't belong to a Fleet or NAHCA?



RJ >I think by providing a fleet or class for boats to sail in is inclusive.

SE > SPIN, SPIN, SPIN. This guideline does not and was not intended to encourage Hobie Fleets to ADD an X boat start to their regattas. All of the language in it is limiting and restrictive. It's purpose is to convince Fleets to LIMIT X boats to a single start.



SE >Explanations

RUDE - Any rule which treats a similar group of sailors as second class is rude.

INSULTING - Any rule which makes the sailing experience less for a group of sailors is insulting.

EXCLUSIONARY - Any rule which makes it more difficult for a group of sailors to race by requiring additional equipment, expertise or assistance is exclusionary.

COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE - The fact that these guidelines WILL hinder, limit, restrict, prohibit, and prevent many people from attending cat regattas. DUH! How will we attract the newbies with X boats to our races? Do I tell them to teach somebodies wife or some of the kids to learn how to keep time and calculate portsmouth handicap?

EMBARRASSING - The fact that these guidelines are public knowledge and will be published in many locations. We (NAHCA members) will be held up as pompous and arrogant.

SPIN - Trying to convince us that forcing(recomending?) all the Hobie Fleets to CONDENSE all the X boats into one start is spin.

TRUTH - This is a NAHCA rule foisted upon us by the new regime. As was stated in his campaign article, he wants to make Hobie Regattas more "HOBIE" and purge them of all the unholy X boats. That is the source of this crap, plain and simple.

How can I, as a NAHCA member, get a copy of the Hobie guidelines for running regattas. I am specifically interested in policies relating to small Hobie One-Design classes (ie H14, 14T, 18, 21 and in our area anything but H-16s). What is the distinction, in NAHCA terms, between "straggler Hobie designs" and "X-Class"?



I have been to several Hobie Regattas that had classes with 2 or 3 H-18s or H-20s. Racing in these small starts doesn't seem very exciting. Would these "straggler Hobie Class Sailors" enjoy themselves more if the raced against/with the "X-Class"against 15-20 boats? I think so! Seems to me that the very makeup of the existing Hobie Fleets (in terms of types of boats), would encourage regatta organizers to promote open class racing.



I look forward to reading the NAHCA guidelines that Sam Evans has referenced.

Ok,,, that's enough spinning for this sailor !!



IMHO, enough outrage has been expressed from all directions, and I would suggest it is time to reflect on a few basic facts and truths.



1) The task force report widely printed is just that, a recommendation paper at this point, and not NAHCA policy. NAHCA has not issued a policy as yet, that I know of. At least nothing has reached our fleet's executive members. Now communication has been identified as an area that needs vast improvement within the NAHCA, and I think we have to give Rich a chance to make it so.



2) NAHCA does not control or run the sailing in our area, which is southern Ontario, and I doubt that it does in any region (I can only speak for my own area). A strong and growing spread of regatta's, workshops, and seminars have developed and are run by our area members, both Hobie and Non-Hobie. And we are not about to let anyone or any policy damage that progress. Rob aluded to the open class scoring that I and other open class sailors do in our area. We also scored the Hobie class's as well, at all last seasons events in our area. No big deal,,, just one of the many jobs, including total regatta management, that is routinely handled by many of our members irrespective of thier boat types.



3) In short,,, we have found strength in our diversity, and we are not about to let anyone, or any policy, screw up our success's. I suspect that to be true in most area's wether they are organized as a Hobie Fleet, or as a regional association, or any combination of those two (or any other organization for that matter).



4) I think that most of us, who have been around for a while, are experienced enough to know this. And that includes the executive members of our various organisations. The real power to chart the course of our sailing rests in the hands of our event organisors and our regional association members. I have been fortunate to be able to find the strengths and enjoyment in all the various classes of racing (both open class and one-design) that I have participated in over the years,, and I have met and learned from many amazing people, from each of those classes.



So despite some initial concern about recent developements, I am confident that 2002 will be another great season. I guess that I ultimately have faith in the people sailing beside me.



All the best for the holiday season (I was tempted to say X-mas, ;-),

Alan Maguire

Vice-Commodore Fleet183/ORCA

USSA Portsmouth Committee, and member

NAF-18 Class Association, Canadian Rep.

CYA/OSA

M6.0

H16

Twister

Here is the e-mail which I received through our Division 9 news group. I do not know the original author.

<
Although there was a lot of discussion about the x-class when asked to vote on 2 specific options the response was not as good. The vote was deadlocked between all three original options. But if we look at all the e-mails I think that option 2 should be the proposal.



"The x-class should be only one start for all non-Hobie boats. This start can be fit into the start sequence at a place which best promotes good sailing for all the classes. This includes the beginning Hobie 16 sailors (b and c fleet) so they do not get stuck with one-lap races while x-class boats are doing three and four lap races. The x-class must provide a scorer to figure out handicaps and do the handicap scoring; this may include some one to take times at the finish. But all area championships should be Hobie only events. The NAHCA should search out and work with fleets willing to host these area championships."



Like I mentioned previously, these are guidelines which we want fleets and divisions to follow. They are not rules or laws, therefore setting slightly higher goals does not hurt us. Also, people generally will not go above the guidelines set out for them, so setting the bar a little high can help some fleets do more than they may have otherwise.

As with how x-class boats fit into regattas, what to charge them to sail with us had varying responses. Due to the time constraints we do not have any guidelines for fees or membership. Although, many people feel that everyone should be paying equally, there are those that believe that we should not force non-Hobie owners to join the class. This topic needs to be looked into more by a separate group or the same group at another time.

Hopefully, all the fleets and divisions will follow the guidelines, but it would be naive to expect that. To make a more Hobie one-design oriented regatta schedule in the future, NAHCA has to work at the grass roots level to create that view among the average sailors. NAHCA should promote Hobie racing with out alienating other classes. Promoting Hobie-racing should be NAHCA?s focus and how x-class relates to that promotion will need to be revisited periodically.>>



The author of the e-mail uses the term "I think" when explaining how this particular item came to be THE OFFICIAL PROPOSAL. So apparently ONE PERSON took it upon themselves to decide what the concensus of the general meeting was and proferred these guidelines.

So far the author has not stepped up and identified themselves and defended their actions.



RE: Starts vs. Classes

People are often confused about the difference between starts and classes. A class is a group of boats competing for the same trophy. A start may, and often does, include many "classes".

At our Hobie regattas we usually have a class for each of the different Hobies, but try to limit the starts to less than four. We usually combine all the H 18's into one class.

7.4 SMALL FLEETS: A fleet of less than five (5) boats may be started with another fleet at the discretion of the Race Committee. This change will be announced at the initial Skippers' Meeting and posted on the Official Regatta Notice Board.



This was grabbed from the IHCA regatta instructions. I have seen 5 Hobie 18's DEMAND their one design start. I have seen ONE sailor out of the 5 insist that they be given the start in accordance with IHCA rules. Without guidance, the PRO is on their own. (the starting line was set up for a 20 boat 16 A fleet start. ) They refused to be combined with H17's or open and point to the standard racing instructions.



Starting policies effect everyone one at the regatta and the major complain is usually... how long they had to wait around ... or how little racing they actually did.



Seems to me that NAHCA should modify this IHCA SI and leave starts up to the PRO's of the fleets . They are the folks who have to make things work out so that everyone has fun.

Mark

Agree with Mark. Suggest change to leave this decision to the PRO. Rolling starts, with separate start and finish lines also works great to speed up the action and reduce delays.

Caleb Tarleton Feet 95, Div 4

I think Alan beat me to it here but I was encouraged to reply to this discussion. Unfortunately the last week has been busy for me and I have not had to the time follow this on a daily basis let alone reply to every poster.



In reading through some of these postings it amazes me that some people are spouting all kinds of statements that are simply incorrect. I can only attribute that to the lack of communication that has been prevalent for several years. This is something we are addressing.



The task force report that seems to have generated this discussion is just a report to the NAHCA officers. During our annual meeting it was decided we would form a task force and the group would discuss the open class issue at length and report back. We received their report about a week ago and it was posted here as well. At this point this is just a report, not a policy or anything else. The NAHCA officers are going to review this and discuss it at length. Our goal is to try and develop a set of guidelines that make sense. We are not looking to issues some dictatorial directives. Unfortunately this is going to take a little bit of time and you are going to have be patient and give us some time.



Rich