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F20 Time #48595
05/05/05 02:13 PM
05/05/05 02:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 281
Houston, Texas
EasyReiter Offline OP
enthusiast
EasyReiter  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 281
Houston, Texas
Ok,, Now is the time. to get this thing off the beach.

The F18 class is starting to accelerate with the success of the Tiger.

It is my belief that we should get a simple box rule in place (maybe just add 12% to all the 18 rules and call it even.)
ISAF does not list an F20 rules on their website. I emailed and asked why, will post the results.

This should not be a huge opinion thing and as far as women and this class I think it is a mistake to make it for everyone and worry about a lot of compensations for weight.

The 20 is for bigger crews, that is why they bought the boat in the first place, if you are a light crew sail F18.

Ok this is one point of view that I am not really attached to so lets get the discussion going again. ans see if we can get an ISAF F20 or some other organization to host the rules, Ps I am in favor of doing the same thing that the tiger is doing, they can race as a tiger or as an F18. I want to race my Inter the same way.
I have talked to a few hobie 20 sailors and they would be willing to be F20 (w spin), the N6.0's should be willing too also. maybe the SC20 (if anyone knows one) would join.

If the rules are simple enough and do not worry about every whining faction then this can be done successfully.


Marc Reiter I 20 #861 Dikes, Ferries and Tramps. www.texascitydike.com
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Re: F20 Time [Re: EasyReiter] #48596
05/06/05 05:29 PM
05/06/05 05:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 390
samevans Offline
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samevans  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 390
Marc,
Neither the ISAF nor any national authority, regulates, controls, approves or even stores the various Class rules.
The governing Rules for a boat Class are usually controlled by a Class Association or a manufacturer.

There was a discussion about this several months ago and it was suggested that the ISAF could store and post all of the Class rules in a library.
So far nothing has come of it.

What are you trying to accomplish?
There has been an existing Open Formula 20 Class webPAGE (not website) since 2002.
Crazy Carl created a set of Rules in 2001.
This forum was started in November 2001.
Carl has been beating up on the rules for almost four years and still no takers.
Nothing has happened for Formula 20 racing anywhere in the U.S.
The iF20 has been a failure in europe also.

I suggest you review the previous posts on this forum and maybe save yourself alot of wasted time and energy.

Re: F20 Time [Re: samevans] #48597
05/09/05 10:49 AM
05/09/05 10:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 281
Houston, Texas
EasyReiter Offline OP
enthusiast
EasyReiter  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 281
Houston, Texas
Sam,
You do not race a 20ft boat, why did you post?
Your comment that "ISAF nor any national authority, regulates, controls, approves or even stores the various Class rules."

Is uninformed and just plain false.

Your other comment.
"I suggest you review the previous posts on this forum and maybe save yourself alot of wasted time and energy"

I do not know what to say, if you look back through the posts yourself you will see that I have been posting here for a few years.

What I am trying to do is to get F20 off ground zero, because I do race a 20ft cat. If you have no support to offer then please resist your urge to type.






Marc Reiter I 20 #861 Dikes, Ferries and Tramps. www.texascitydike.com
Re: F20 Time [Re: EasyReiter] #48598
05/09/05 04:19 PM
05/09/05 04:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 390
samevans Offline
enthusiast
samevans  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 390
You are wrong, I do occasionally race on a 20' boat.

So inform me.
Which classes does ISAF regulate?
Who, at ISAF, does the regulating?
Where are the regulations?

Which classes does ISAF control?
How does it control them?

Where does ISAF post Class rules?
Who is responsible for maintaining the library?

I read many forums, here and other websites.
I post on many forums here and at other websites.
You have no authority to tell me or anyone else when they can post.

"look back"?
How about if I count back?
Before this thread, you have posted 15 times on this forum since 3/22/02.
That is 37 months.
One could surmise that a person who only posts once every three months, is not following a forum very closely.
But my suggestion stands, because your original post raises issues that were discussed long ago and delt with.

You shouldn't whine when you get a response you don't like.

Re: F20 Time [Re: EasyReiter] #48599
05/09/05 11:00 PM
05/09/05 11:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
old hand
pitchpoledave  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
Hi Mark,
I don't see a problem with the I20s and N6.0NAs doing f20 right now, as well as some other boats..but one problem I do see is the cost and risk for the H20s (and other boats that are noticably different) to retrofit. A h20 sailor takes a big risk to go to F20 right now. He is no longer a H20, and so must sail either open or find a F20 event. I suppose that he could put the old rig back on for a H20 event, but still...why do that? (I don't think that a H20 sailor with the stock rig would be competitive vs a N6 or I20)

I think that the key to this is to get the details hammered out based on what Carl has done and get Hobie to build a new 20 footer to those specs. Hobie needs a new 20 footer anyway, so if they can be convinced to build the new one to the spec, then we are off and running. If they go and do their own thing, then it won't work.

I don't know if Hobie NA is even thinking about a new 20 footer, or have they abandoned the market completely?

I agree that there is a definite need for a 20 foot formula class, but in my opinion, unless you can either get H20s to convert their rigs, or else get H usa to build a new boat to the spec, then it won't work.

Anyway I am all for it. How do we do it?
Dave
N6.0na #325

Re: F20 Time [Re: samevans] #48600
05/11/05 09:39 AM
05/11/05 09:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 281
Houston, Texas
EasyReiter Offline OP
enthusiast
EasyReiter  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 281
Houston, Texas


Marc Reiter I 20 #861 Dikes, Ferries and Tramps. www.texascitydike.com
Re: F20 Time [Re: pitchpoledave] #48601
05/11/05 09:54 AM
05/11/05 09:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 281
Houston, Texas
EasyReiter Offline OP
enthusiast
EasyReiter  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 281
Houston, Texas
Thanks dave,
I have seen a few H20s with spins that did very well against the inter. it would be hard for me to say if it was sailing experience or boat speed. I think that getting Hobie to build a boat would at a minimum take someone talking to them about it.
the hobie Tiger is both a class tiger and F18, I would hope that hobie will see an advantage in a larger version. (the Fox never caught on here, not sure why).
maybe from the very low volume of posts on this section of catsailor we can infer that there is not a tremendous interst in the big boats, there is obviously a large interest in the F18 and Tiger in this part of the country.
I guess I will just go back to sailing.


ISAF charges 780+(pounds) for a class registration. and until there is a portsmouth number for a class with acknowledged rules there is no way to race the class or even buy a sail that meets class specifications. Since I am in the market to buy a sail I am going to have to buy a stock sail.


Marc Reiter I 20 #861 Dikes, Ferries and Tramps. www.texascitydike.com

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