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Re: Tybee 500 Hotline [Re: Mary] #48853
05/12/05 11:18 AM
05/12/05 11:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
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Mary  Offline OP
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
I hope you guys have seen this morning's start pictures that Rick posted with his morning story on our home page. Looked a little wet getting out.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Tybee 500 Hotline [Re: Mary] #48854
05/12/05 12:27 PM
05/12/05 12:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
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Mary  Offline OP
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Well, my lunch report is late because when Rick called from lunch, he didn't tell me he was at lunch. Anyway, at about 11:45 the leading boats were Tybee, Pirates, Sailmax I and Coconut Grove Sails, not necessarily in that order, because they were closely grouped and swapping places a lot.

That's all I know for now.

Re: Tybee 500 Hotline [Re: Mary] #48855
05/12/05 12:43 PM
05/12/05 12:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
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Mary  Offline OP
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Just got a shore report from Kirk Newkirk, five miles south of St. Augustine Beach. Pirates is in the lead, all alone. About 2 minutes behind are Coconut Grove Sails, Tybee and Sailmax I, in a very tight group. And 3 minutes behind them is Sailmax II. Another 3 minutes back is Key Sailing, and Velocity is about 2 minutes behind them. The last three are Windy Hill, Spacecoast and Morada, in that order.

All have dropped their spinnakers because the wind has picked up a little too much to carry them. They are jib-reaching.

Re: Tybee 500 Hotline [Re: Mary] #48856
05/12/05 12:47 PM
05/12/05 12:47 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 54
PA, Bucks
N
Nieuwkerk Offline
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Nieuwkerk  Offline
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N

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Posts: 54
PA, Bucks
Just curious - do those conditions favor the 6.0 with their larger jib? As a 6.0 owner, I'm hopeful that Morada stages a comeback!!!

Re: Tybee 500 Hotline [Re: Nieuwkerk] #48857
05/12/05 01:52 PM
05/12/05 01:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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David Ingram  Offline
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Quote
Just curious - do those conditions favor the 6.0 with their larger jib? As a 6.0 owner, I'm hopeful that Morada stages a comeback!!!


Yes, a broad to tight reach does favor the large jib sloops. As you saw from the first part of this race (to the rock and back) Morada did very well. I would expect them to start moving up now that the fleet has their spins put away. However, as the wind bends back to right as the day warms I'd expect the spins to go back up, and this will not favor the 6.0.

Dave


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Tybee 500 Hotline [Re: David Ingram] #48858
05/12/05 04:39 PM
05/12/05 04:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
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Mary  Offline OP
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Boats are finished at Fernandina Beach.
First is Coconut Grove Sails, by 7-8 minutes.
Second is Pirates
Third, Tybee
Fourth, Sailmax I
The fifth boat is landing right now, and four more within 10 minutes.
One not accounted for, and that is probably Velocity.
Morada beached somewhere because of some kind of breakdown, and their ground crew has gone to pick them up.

More soon.

Re: Tybee 500 Hotline [Re: Mary] #48859
05/12/05 05:01 PM
05/12/05 05:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
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Mary  Offline OP
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Fifth is Sailmax II
Sixth is Key Sailing
Seventh is Windy Hill
Eighth is Spacecoast
Ninth is St. Louis
Tenth will be Velocity, although they are not in sight yet.

Morada is definitely retiring from the race. We still don't know the problem.

Rick is working on getting up a story and pictures on our website. Keep checking our home page.

Re: Tybee 500 Hotline [Re: Mary] #48860
05/12/05 06:28 PM
05/12/05 06:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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Mary - word on the beach is that Morada lost a transom today. Scuttlebutt is they're out of the race. Too bad - these guys have been driving hard and were praying for a reach like this...


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Tybee 500 Hotline [Re: John Williams] #48861
05/12/05 06:55 PM
05/12/05 06:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
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Mary  Offline OP
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Thanks for the info, John. Seemed to me like something was wrong with the boat from the git-go this morning, because they were so far back. Maybe they had some damage going out through the surf.

Re: Tybee 500 Hotline [Re: Mary] #48862
05/12/05 07:17 PM
05/12/05 07:17 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503
BrianK Offline
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In Cocoa Beach Curt mentioned that they had damaged a hull coming in to the beach and were going to do some fiberglass repair.

Re: Tybee 500 Hotline [Re: Mary] #48863
05/12/05 07:18 PM
05/12/05 07:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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John Williams  Offline
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Long Beach, California
Kirk mentioned the same thing - they were in last when they stopped, so something was definitely wrong. Bonnie posted that they sheared of the rear beam bolts. That would certainly be a problem... Important thing was the news that they were in and OK. I expect they'll be back at it again next year.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Tybee 500 Hotline [Re: John Williams] #48864
05/12/05 10:04 PM
05/12/05 10:04 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
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BANNED
hey all,
just got back from dinner... today was disappointing to say the least. We were doing well until catastrophe struck. As for updates to our website, check out www.velocitysailing.com/T500
i've been posting some small blurbs everynight from my cellphone.

Re: Protest resolution... [Re: John Williams] #48865
05/13/05 09:28 AM
05/13/05 09:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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John Williams  Offline
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Long Beach, California
Alright, now I'm baffled. I'm trying to remind myself that I'm a few hundred miles away and not second guess protest decisions, but... rescinding the 20-minute penalty?

I've been harping on the sportsmanship tip for a couple of years now - we compete and agree to be bound by, and enforce, the racing rules of sailing. If someone didn't sail the course and know they didn't sail the course... if it were me, I'd greatfully accept the minor 20-minute penalty as an alternative to what the rules require (a DNF) because I'd get to keep racing. Strictly speaking, a RAF would be a gentleman's only recourse, but I'm not sure I could bring myself to withdraw considering the effort and investment involved in the Tybee. A protest flag is immaterial if the competitors involved agreed that, by mistake or on purpose, they did not sail the proper course.

Hope that Chuck and Sean make an effort to further explain where they're coming from to reassure future participants that capricious or unpredictable race committee decisions won't tarnish an otherwise stellar competitive experience.

ps - Just double checked. No mention of protest flags required in the Nacra 20 class rules (Nov. 2000) posted on the class website.

Last edited by John Williams; 05/13/05 09:36 AM.

John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Tybee 500 Hotline [Re: MauganN20] #48866
05/13/05 09:34 AM
05/13/05 09:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
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Mary  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
The remaining 10 boats have successfully left on the final leg to Tybee Island (about 100 miles). There was hardly any surf, and the boats all started close-hauled. Wind is out of the NNE at about 5 mph.

Team Morada is out of the race because of damage that forced them to beach prior to the finish yesterday.

They did not lose a transom. One of the straps broke that attaches the rear beam to the hulls. There are two straps on the starboard side and two straps on the port side. One of the bolts that attach the inboard strap on the starboard side broke. This caused the back end of the starboard hull to kind of fishtail, working the other strap to the point where it probably would have failed, as well.

We still do not know whether this damage happened coming in through the surf on Wednesday night or going out through the surf on Thursday morning....or what.

It is a very unusual kind of failure.

Re: Protest resolution... [Re: John Williams] #48867
05/13/05 09:50 AM
05/13/05 09:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
tami Offline
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tami  Offline
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Posts: 623
Gulf Coast
Hi John,

I've now worked for two experienced PRO, both of whom explained it thus:

It's up to the OTHER COMPETITORS to lodge protests. Even if the RC observes the infraction, they make note of it, but it is up to the racers to police themselves. The racer committing the infraction SHOULD do the gentlemanly thing and admit to the infraction and ask for a penalty, or else the other racers should lodge protests against him. Only if the 'offending' racer is obviously unsportsmanlike should the RC get involved.

This concept, as I understand it, is first to relieve the RC of some of the stress from having so much to do, and second to encourage sportsmanship and decency amongst the racers themselves.

Unless I just way didn't understand the explanation ;-)

sea ya
tami

Re: Protest resolution... [Re: tami] #48868
05/13/05 10:01 AM
05/13/05 10:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Hey Tam-a-ram-a-ding-dong -

Agreed - protest was filed, ruled on, then reversed without a request to reopen the hearing. Of course, I'm not there, so I want to say again that second guessing from home is risky behaviour. Reason given to reopen the hearing was a requirement in the class rules for a protest flag, which I can't find.

Also agree we're expected to self-regulate. Great idea unless it isn't happening.

Oh well - decision made and published. Best to leave it alone and let's turn our attention to the finish of an exciting race!


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Last Day's Chart [Re: John Williams] #48869
05/13/05 10:04 AM
05/13/05 10:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
sail7seas Offline
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Re: Protest resolution... [Re: John Williams] #48870
05/13/05 10:07 AM
05/13/05 10:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Quote
Alright, now I'm baffled. I'm trying to remind myself that I'm a few hundred miles away and not second guess protest decisions, but... rescinding the 20-minute penalty?


Hmmm....

Why have rules then aye!


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Protest resolution... [Re: John Williams] #48871
05/13/05 10:13 AM
05/13/05 10:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
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Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Yeah, you're right again. It really is up the the competitors to take issue with the decision and not us.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Tybee 500 Hotline [Re: Mary] #48872
05/13/05 10:37 AM
05/13/05 10:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 9
New Engand
Rick_Bliss Offline
stranger
Rick_Bliss  Offline
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Posts: 9
New Engand
It's really not that unusual to break a strap bolt or stainless strap on the Nacra 6.0 in a race like this. The Morada boat has been through 3 Tybee 500's. Earlier in the race they did some minor port transom damage when they got to the beach and a wave slammed the lifted rudder sideways. They duct taped the crack, sailed another leg without any problems and then had it repaired.

I replace the bolts on my boat every two years or before an event like the Tybee. During the Worrell I also started doubling up some of the straps.

As far as the protest flag, I think it's a matter of The Racing Rules of Sailing, 61.1 a (2) and the fact that the Nacra (Inter-20) class and this race (I haven't read the Tybee rules this year) adhere to these rules. A boat over 6 meters needs to display a red flag.

Rick Bliss

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