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New to F16 #50060
05/30/05 02:39 PM
05/30/05 02:39 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7
Washington DC
Scott49 Offline OP
stranger
Scott49  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7
Washington DC
Hi,
I am moving to the DC area and am looking at buying an F16. Is there a fleet in that area? How difficult are the boats to sail, as I have not raced cats previously (extensively sailed 49ers which I assume is a similar style of sailing)? Also, how even are the various F16s, do certain brands seem to be faster then others?

Thanks,

Scott

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Re: New to F16 [Re: Scott49] #50061
05/30/05 02:52 PM
05/30/05 02:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
Robi Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Robi  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL
All F16 are on the same boat lol I meant they can be all same speed. It is all dependant on sailor.

If by any chance you are in South Florida you are more than welcomed to sail my Blade any day.

As far as which F16, well obviously biased here. I would recommend the Blade F16 built locally in Titusville FL by Vector Works Marine Inc. Although there are other F16's out there, the other most popular in the US would be the Taipan 4.9 (sweet boat BTW) I havent seen any other, again I do not travel as much as I want to.

Here is a good start and get your brain working on F16's Hopefully YOU will be added to our roster of F16 sailors.
http://www.geocities.com/F16HPclass/

Here is a gallery of the Blade F16 I made on beachcats
http://www.thebeachcats.com/modules...mp;file=index&include=view_album.php

and obviously you can visit the link in my signature.

Hope to hear from you more often.

Re: New to F16 [Re: Scott49] #50062
05/31/05 07:52 AM
05/31/05 07:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe

Hello Scott,

Quote

I am moving to the DC area and am looking at buying an F16. Is there a fleet in that area?


There is small fleet in, I beleive, Maryland county (have to check) but I have too look it up to determine wether that is close enough to D.C. A short while back, there was talk of a new Blade F16 going up to viginnia. Definately small beginnings, but it is a start. Otherwise "your fleet" will be open class and first-in-wins racing with Formula 18 boats. The F16's are really up to that. I know that US pn yardsticks hint at a noticeably difference in speed beween these two classes but In Europe we race on the same handicap (as in Australia) and we are doing fine in the results.

Probably the best advice I can give you in this respect is to state clearly what you want from a catamaran and let those criteria determine the final choice. F16 is strong in the area's :

-1- flexibility; solo sailing or doublehanded sailing in any conditions
-2- Lightweight; it is a sh!tload easier to move about on land and to put it on a trailer. Especially important when doing all singlehanded.
-3- Performance ; on a par with the very popular and (to be) dominant F18 class
-4- It's feel; They are just very sweet boats to sail. They react to everything you do. Not all in a good way but the fact that they do react to everything is very positive. I feel really bound up on a F18 nowadays, boats like Prindle 19's etc just feel dead to me; I can pull on sheets and trim lines and not much happens. This in contrast to a well designed F16. I'm spoiled by the F16's clarity in responses and feel.
-5- The F16's are far more suited to smaller and/or less muscular crews. I'm thinking male-female, all-female and parent-teenager crews.

Small fleet sizes and that fact that we are still growing into serious numbers are our weaker points.


Quote

How difficult are the boats to sail, as I have not raced cats previously (extensively sailed 49ers which I assume is a similar style of sailing)?



If you can control and sail a monohull skiff well than you can control any high performance cat. Skiffs like the 49-er are more difficult to control. I sail a little bit 49-er as well. In comparison to the 49-er I really put the F16's on top. It is just a nicer boat to trim and sail. I like the 49-er dogma of making everything as simply as possible, especially when compared to much more cluttered skiffs like the RS series. However, In some aspects I think they overdid it on the 49-er (sorry). I felt that in some cases it had a negative impact on the effectiveness of the systems. I disliked the OD mentallity that forbid us to make small modifications to improve on these aspects. Anyway, back to F16's in relation to other catamarans. F16 control is in my opinion excellent and noticeably better than the bulk of available catamarans on the market today. And I'm not just saying that. Controls on F16's have a very wide range of control. Especially the superwing mast rigs, as found on the Taipans and Blades, in my personal opinion. These are rather flexible masts that work very well in combination with mast rotation control, downhaul and leech tension. You can make these mast stand-up and be firm or have them bend away in the gust fully. All as a result to differences in mastrotations and sheet/control line tensions. One very good example it that you can make the platform go from fully powered and lifting like crazy to completely docile with both hulls in the water by just pulling in the mast rotation control. I did it and learned this in 20 knots winds. In combination with downhaul and sheet tension the range of control is even larger. Of course in other to go fast you'll need to find the right trim, but as these boats react so clearly to these control actions I believe that they are less difficult to sail well.

So the difficulty is not making the boat controllable as depowering is very easy (when using the right controls), nor is it working trhough all the combo;'s to discover what works or not, but rather the challenge is to keep the boat in optimal trim. The single downside to all this control and clear reactions is that you must continiously keep an eye on boat trim to get the very max out of it. I think this to be closely related to sail enjoyment, nor do I think that this qualifies as making a boat "difficult" to sail. In non racing situations you can easily sail well with somewhat less optimal trim and go fast just as well. Anyway I really think F16;s are very enjoyable crew boats, sailing these is really a team effort, but far more in relation to optimal trim then to keep it under control.

Quote

Also, how even are the various F16s, do certain brands seem to be faster then others?



I have my personal favorites, but with respect to performance I have not been able to find a clear advantaged F16 design. I've sailed Taipan 4.9, Taipan F16 and Stealth F16 is earnest for several times and in races all allowed higher placings in the fleet. Actually my best score was on a Stealth F16 (11th place when racing 30 F18's on first-in-wins basis). I have not sailed the Blade F16 yet but I do expect alot from it. I really like the feel of my own Taipan F16 and I think Blade F16 adresses the weaker points of the Taipan F16 design well while keeping all the good stuff of the Taipan F16 like its superwing rig.

After having sailed these F16 versions (with the exception of the new Blade F16) I'm of the opinion that all are extremely close in overall performanc, both to eachother and to the F18's. Therefor any choice between any of them should be made entirely on cost-"what you get" ratio and personal preference.

If it may help you my summary of the boats is :

-1- Stealth F16 ; excellent cost to "what you get" ratio. Mostly because it is prized so low. You get excellent performance for 10.500 Euro's (including high EU taxes that US buyer do not have to pay), but the boat is simplier in the way it is fitted out and more average in the way it feels while sailing. (This despite having good overall performance !)

-2- Taipan 4.9 ; excellent boat all-round, although costly 14.500 Euro's (including high EU taxes). When buying new I would opt for the fully optimized Taipan F16 over the 4.9. Keeping all the good stuff and getting rid of the weaker points like the Taipan 4.9 jib sheeting.

-3- Taipan F16 (my own boat); excellent boat, favours crews below 145 kg (320 lbs). Well fitted out, a little less stiff than Blade F16 for example but that is mostly because the Blade F16 design is very good indeed.

-4- Blade F16; (I have not sailed this boat myself) but from comments of Blade sailors as well as the technical specs this appears to be the new benchmark in F16 sailing. When looking at my own Taipan F16 , the Blade F16 adresses all the points that I would want to see improved in the Taipan designs. Arguably these are not many nor very big but still ... For US buyers it is this fact and the the fact that Blade F16 is US build and thus not suffering from the bad exchange rate between dollar and foreign currencies makes this boat clearly the most attractive design for them. Roughly 13.000 US$ (fully fitted) for the smoothest ride with the excellent superwing rig. I can't wait to get my own test ride on one in the coming weeks.

So in summary although I think highly of the other makes I fully appreciate the fact that exchange rate between dollar and foreign currencies makes the Blade F16 a clear favourite to US buyers. The difference is several thousand dollars with the Blade F16 being at least as good as the others in any worse case scenario. Not even well performing low cost option for Europeans, the Stealth F16, can compete with that.

As extra info on the Blade I refer to Tim Bohans report of the Blade F16. Tim doesn't own a F16 (yet) nor have ever owned one. So as a test sailor he should be pretty impartial.

Link :

Tim Bohans testing of the Blade F16

If you want more detailed info on either Stealth or Taipan products then please contact me for that. But take note that I will be surprised if you can "get" (=import) one of these for less than 14.750 US$ (basic Stealth F16). Probably you you end up noticeably higher.

I hope this helps




Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: New to F16 [Re: Scott49] #50063
05/31/05 05:01 PM
05/31/05 05:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Scott

We have 2 Taipans' on the beach in Galesville at the West River Catamaran Racing Association Club and three in the area. You can find all of the info you need at www.sailcrac.com with links to WRCRA there.

Galesville is about 45 minutes from the Big White House!

Take Care
Mark


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: New to F16 [Re: Scott49] #50064
05/31/05 08:18 PM
05/31/05 08:18 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7
Washington DC
Scott49 Offline OP
stranger
Scott49  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7
Washington DC
Thanks for info. Once I move I plan to buy an F16.

-Scott

Re: New to F16 [Re: Scott49] #50065
06/01/05 07:22 AM
06/01/05 07:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 18
Richmond, Virginia
gordon Offline
stranger
gordon  Offline
stranger

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 18
Richmond, Virginia
I live in Richmond, and am getting one of the new blade f16, hopefully to arrive within the next week.

You are welcome to come down and try it out also. it will be kept on the Rappahanock.



Gordon
Re: New to F16 [Re: gordon] #50066
06/03/05 04:41 PM
06/03/05 04:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Gordon,

Quote

... am getting one of the new blade f16, hopefully to arrive within the next week. ...



When you have it then please contact me on Formula16class(at)hotmail.com . Free F16 membership is available (with voting rights) to all F16 boat owners. Also non personal info (like where you sail etc) is used to inform interested parties about developing fleets in their vicinity. With you we now have 5 F16's in that particular area. That is a start of a fleet, especially if Scott joins in.

Also I want to be the first to congratulate you on your new boat !

Scott, the same invitation (to become a F16 member for free) to you when you boat has arrived !


Fair winds to you both,

Wouter




Last edited by Wouter; 06/03/05 04:43 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands

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