Most kayak sail rigs are for downwind sailing only and if they want weather performance, they have to add a lee board. With the MirageDrive you get forward momentum for increased aparent wind, the fins act as latteral resistance and you can pedal throug tacks and gybes. Sailing through a gybe is pretty tough on a kayak due to the inastability, but add the drive-speed you can do it easily and you certainly can't get stuck in irons! Plus we are working a a dodger for the legs (as these are sit on tops) that will take care of another concern of people that live north like yourself... warmth. You get the safety of a sit on top (easy exit and you can easily get back on, no eskimo roll required) with the warmth of a sit inside. The dodger will have a slot for the sail rig too.

Ooops, sorry.

I meant to say that you have to be nincompoop to ignore the socio-economic indicators of multi and single party systems in countries that may or may not selectively apply marxist, socialistic, or capitalistic interpretations of the value of the Euro vs. the dollar vs. the yen while either giving their citizens access to vacations, or healthcare, or tuna sandwiches, or none of the above while voting for or against the EU constitution, only if they like or dislike France or cuddly puppies and find the size of Rush Limbaugh's or Al Franken's waistline tied (or not) to the amount of Sardines contributed or consumed by the members of the EU to support the rights of migratory social, fiscal, or apathetic conservatives or liberals to vote whether or not to raise or repeal the oppressive sock tax (opposed as a gimme by the sandal wearing political action extremists) for those who might consider the accepted (or not) theories of supply and demand as applied to whining or winning Americans or Europeans with respect to whether they want to buy a sailboat or a powerboat, as they approve or disapprove of government funding for birth control for baby whales. Or not.

And, by the way, that's a cool pic of a sailboat!

How's that?

Matt, that's why I liked the CLC trimaran concept, stability on all courses and windward ability (lee-board fitted to the crossbeams).

Now, I know how to do several types of eskimo rolls, so I prefer a traditional kayak. Sit on tops have not taken off up here yet (untraditional, and quite cold water/weather as you note). I have also yet to see a MirageDrive, but I look forward to see one someday. Perhaps you should make Hobie Cat Norway (Per Hansen-Tangen) do a promotion tour on the west coast

Let me see.

Germany with 82.16 million (1999) citizens pays 7.7 billion Euro's

UK with 58.68 million (1999) pays 2.8 Million after a hefty rebate (over 2 billion Euro's)

Than the super nation of Holland with a population of 16.30 million (2005; was less in 1999) pays 2.0 Billion thus outperforming :

France with 62.4 (2004) pays 1.9 billion Euro's


So we pay 3 times more per head than UK citizens, 4 times more per head than the French, and still 30 % more per head then the good Germans.

That is because our politicians don't know how to negociate at European level. Margret Thatcher negociated a huge rebate and still was nothing more than trouble. We are the most behaved boy of the class (stability pact) and as thanks get milked for all we are worth.

So yes we are indeed outpaying the loud mouths.

And this is my final posting on this. If anybody wants to continue this off-topic (sailing ?) discussion than lets do it privately.

Wouter

Sounds like you need a new set of politicians !

Like is all about negotiations !

I don't think these Kayaks are available in Europe, can you enlighten us Matt?

Mirage Drive (which is totally unique):

http://www.hobiecat.com/kayaking/miragedrive.html

The global economy is based on currencies inc.the Dollar and Euro ,-as the exchange rates fluxuate with corrections between this sets off corrections in the global marketplace --IE AS this pertains to US sailboat sales ,-Not many US sailors are going to purchase EU boats at inflated EU value prices --a 30,000 dollar plus 20 for example when an I-20 is available at half the price .--US sailboat sales in total go down in 04 --now up in total in 05 ,though US mfg and other imports may be the increase ,--thus the correction over time of fewer EU boats sold ,--the higher Euro valuation not always a positive factor on the EU ecomomy or indicator of future economy ,-and more due to foreign investment in dollars or Euros -and return on investment .
good article here --http://www.cato.org/dailys/01-02-04.html

The increase in EU may be due more to the more free market industrious UK and other more free market oriented EU nations entering along with promises to hold individual nations deficets to a low percentage ,--of which numerous nations like FR that can not sustain its socialistic entitments promptly are breaking by running larger ones than agreed and other EU nations are holding to. This while having nil on self defence or any real military . Note they are also breaking Kyoto environmental agreements ,-and have numerous military and conflicting economic interests and dalliances in their former African colonial nations under UN auspicies like the Ivory Coast ,-where military intervention and bungling continues .

What you begin to see is a another bankrupt socialistic nation its elitist leaders --Chirac and Co. {as per failed former soviet union} acting much worse and causing more damage and it appears being involved in coruption. Numerous govt officials being involved in the UN oil for Food Scandal --FR having been the Husseins regimes major trade partner .---Socialist nations corrupt leaders or as per last centuries history --national socialism can become far far worse than any corperation could ever imagine .---People can be inherantly evil and descuctive in government or private sectors --it is nieve to believe otherswise and invest your future in socialistic notions while the con of a false boogyman construct of evil boogmen corperations ,--be they in Galleons or modern transport ships .
VDH warns us to watch CHINA --unchecked by any constraints of EU or caring much about its opinions or caring about morally unfounded letcuring or socialistic notions.

The world depends on a healthy growing economy and stable markets and currencies ,--millions upon millions suffer in a global recession . The US has always actively been directly involved and encouraged free trade with Europe , more evident now with globalization of so many international companies . We wish a happy healthy free prosperous people of all nations that make up the EU ,-though EU constitution is full of ambiguios language that states one thing then contradicts itself ,giving too much power to centralized EU authorities ,--not necessarily pro biz as some suggest or mistakenly believe.

-IE -Take the critical term “subsidiarity,” with which the euro constitution promises to protect the vestiges of national sovereignty. This term invariably occurs in the vicinity of a seriously damaging question, namely: What remains of the democratic forms of government achieved by the nation-states when the EU takes charge of their legislation? The answer is that we must apply the “principle of subsidiarity,” according to which decisions are all to be taken at the “lowest level compatible with the project of Union.”

What is this lowest level, you may ask, and who decides which decisions are to be taken there? The only possible answer to the second question — namely, the EU apparatus, including the European Court of Justice — removes all meaning from the first.

The Eu poster sites in part--quote --
For the Dutch --(we don't want to loose our veto power) and the fact that we're paying millions of Euro's to EU That and the fact that many are tired that our politicians are selling us down stream to lobby groups and big corporations. In general, people care less about free markets and open borders than about the benefits of a social-democratic society. In france a few other points were involved as well; most having to do with market liberalisation and the cutting of state social programs.
end quote -

The poster fails to comprehend the basic lessons of history previously stated --That is in part no civilization has grown or prospered without a healthy marketplace -free trade -and large middle class of entrapenures partisipating in it ,--The Galleons sailing trade routes and opening the new world with free trade routes and nations of the EU coastal region built its population centers in centuries old cities like Amsterdam for example.

We suppose people like the poster sited the big Galleon corperations and trading shop owners of the 1600s as the evil boogyman , never comprehending little would have been built without the free trade and Galleons with free sea access and military to protect them ,-A difficult lesson learned latter in history now seemingly forgotten again .
Now similarly erroring in thinking ---
-quote
>>, "people care less about free markets and open borders than about the benefits of a social-democratic society"
end quote

Please comprehend --the hospitals -roadways -infrastructures for cities --water sewer systems -bridges -electrical grids -power stations --complex flood water control systems --etc all require an inflow of revenue ,-these are created by hardworking people -
{{not necessarily evil --"big-corperations "}} a rather childlike boogyman concept ,-just people producing valued services and goods that require open free marketplaces along with needed resources and materials. Imported goods reciperacly being needed to provide decent standards of living -
Without this EU declines and socialists boogyman meets the reality of a more embittered people disillusioned by declining standards and bankrupt system unable to sustain itself .
People in EU nations are certainly free to live a socialistic existance as per here in the US ,---however - WITHOUT BASIC FREE TRADE -capitol investment -entrapanurialism -and freedom of human creation in a free open marketplace without excessive taxation a people or nation or group of nations have no basis to sustain itself ,
Thus this aspect of human exisance --the free human creative entrapenurial insticts ingrained in us must be the central humanitarian theme ,-this requires us to engage to mutual benifit ,-which enables us to build prosper and solve the problems of humanity .

Carl, this is getting _very_ lengthy, and I must confess I find a lack of introspection in your postings.
Most of the things you hold against the EU and the french are things the U.S are doing themself. As far as I know, the U.S have not even ratified the Kyoto agreement, so for you to critizise the europeans for having trouble fulfilling it is kind of strange.
African colonies held by european contries (what colonies are those)!?? I guess the 'colonies' the U.S. holds doesn't count (you call them territories, and dont even give the natives a vote).
France going bancrupt, and the french not paying taxes.. Get real. Of course they pay taxes, and comparing France with the former Sovjet union is just incomprehensible.
As a side note, I pay 25%V.A.T on everything I buy, goods and services that goes directly to the state. In addition, I pay 23% income tax _and_ I live in a what could be called a socialist state. I think your definition of socialism needs to be updated, we do not live in the 60's anymore, and McCharty'ism really should be dead.

I do think the U.S economy are in more trouble than the french. After all, you are burning your national budget on warfare abroad and "security" measures, like putting our former prime minister (elected three times, with no controversy over the ballots) and former president of the World Health Organization in custody at border control.

Critique is OK, but a certain level of introspection to go hand in hand with it would be nice. It would be nice to meet you over a bottle of wine and discuss the differences between the U.S and Europe with you, as it sounds like you are sadly misinformed and could need some insight in how Europe really works.

Shall we go on and talk sailing here instead?

Best regards
Rolf

I expect that by next fall there will be wider promotion and distribution of the Hobie Kayaks in Europe. Actually, we are hardly able to keep up with the production volume now. This is a natural for the European market. Human powered, compact and technical.

We will be introducing a new model at the end of this summer that is virtually a triamaran. It is a longer touring hull with optional standard sail rig, optional folding amas and optional larger furling sail rig (similar to the Bravo sail). Should be pretty cool! This will be our first real padaling sailboat. Can you imagine? Pedal out of a harbor, sail, pedal through difficult conditions (tacks etc) and pedal home when the wind dies. You also get greatly enhanced performance pedaling and sailing together.

Hi Rolf -

As noted previously ,it is a mistake to place too much faith in the EU press that form your US bias opinions conversely,

Maxist speak --ambiguous langueage ,--as pointed out as contained in the EU constitution that was voted down by FR people -Dutch people ,--and now not being bothered with by voting in the UK on it ,-is a leftover deficet from that idealism and age .
Reference to 60s McCarthyism seems the same ,--the reverse is more often true today .
-but
thanks --appreciate the sailing invitation -hope to someday ,-sailing is a wonderfull universal that all share the joy of reguarless of extent of socialist idealism etc .
I,ve met so many people from different nations sailing --icluding a team from the former soviet union that entered the 87 Worrell 1000 --I still have a T shirt from them we traded . It has a large CCCP on it ,--though would not ever wear it and comprehend what it represented in human suffering .
People are just people --from all over the globe .
My perspective is admittedly small on EU as a whole .
In my high school years we had an exchange student from the formner Ugoslavia live with us -from Skopjopi Masadonia ,-who became an emergency doctor and lifelong friend ,-past away a few years ago ,-and who also sent his sons here locally to study a generation latter. -
Great experience in life , one I value greatly,-and highly recommend .

I,ve seen over decades through him how damaging it was to live under an oppressive govt, and how he changed over decades ,-Of course when Marshal Tito died and Soviet union collapsed all hell broke loose as Boschco said it would and human genocide began in the region ,--on Europes doorstep .
It seems EU or the UN did little at the time--it was a talk talk debate debate as people died by the thousands policy-

When another EU poster describes themselves as
{{noble fencers }} who look at conflict and evaluate it is rather difficult . There was nothing noble about this . One good thing Clinton did finally do was to instruct Gen. Clark to intervein --but only areal bombing to stop it --which he did for 76 straight days ,--then was fired by Clinton .--
It seems then as now supposed UN peacekeepers simply turned their back on more genocide ,-- The worse aspect of this is more of the same occuring now in other regions .

Ive seen the damage -government entities and agents do -often without being held accountable .
Corruption in oil for food is something EU and the UN will have to be accountable for if they wish to have any credibilty left.

Comparing the S U with Chiracs FR is not comperable --granted -though Chirac is currently on his way out and very unpopular with the FR people as is his choise of successor equaly unpopular --Sincerely hope they change and the FR peoples voice is heard over its elitist govt.

On Kyoto --lets see --pass green legislation --agree to it --then don,t bother with it --use it to pompusly criticize and presume to lecture the US FOR NON COMPLIANCE --then hypocritically don,t bother yourself to meet the terms of it you agreed to or comply yourself ??,
Arnold in Calif is doing much the same currently having just passed green legislation for Calif beyond Kyoto goals but not taking effect until 08 and beyond ----guess he,s taken some doublespeak ques from EU as it can not be realistaly met either . I prefer an honest realistic approach rather than false pretence anytime.

As noted all people have the right to choose to live a socialistic existance --acedemia allows this -large labor unions -govt.employment and large corp allow this same sence of employment benifits in a larger entity --People also need the right to basic freedoms and human rights including their own in a free open marketplace -The larger point is that this is the priority in structuring govt policy that has proven through time to benifit all people best .-Freedom to choose -basic human rights and FREEDOM -
THIS REQUIRES FAITH AND BELIEF IN OTHERS .

This ideal -belief exemplified ,-as per numerous free nations globally ,formerly under oppresive regimes and govt .now free to self consentual govt and basic human rights and freedom .

The cost of this is high ,-correct Rolf,--but the alternative seems much worse , The US CONTINUES to support free nations globally since World War 2 ---
think yours benifitted from this as well and continues to --correct

This part of the thread deserves to go into history rather soon, I think.

Yes, Norway benefited enourmously by the Marshal help. To bad that your present government doesn't have the same view on the needing countries of the world.
The relationship between our two states have soured recently. Your ambassodor presented a quite clear threat of further degradetion between us the last time I heard him speak, due to our objections to your foreign policy.

Former Yugoslavia was a disaster nobody wanted to get involved in, and a tragedy followed. The UN can not go into a country unless all combatants wish it, thats why there are no 'blue-troops' in Israel. When UN forces was there, they did not fight becouse politicians did not allow them to. We trained with the danish tank batallion that went down there in 1994, and no doubt the UN had the capacity to take on the agressors. (We learnt the danes winter warfare with heavy cavallery, so I was kind of involved)
NATO should have put the foot down there much earlier, and the UN should have stood their ground (I know the UN forces would have fought, if allowed to by politicians).
In Srebrenica a whole UN brigade was posted, but again politicians refused them to defend themself when the serbians moved in. What ensued was a massacre the UN forces could just watch, while grinding their teeth. There is a very large difference between procrastinating like this and adopting "pre-emptive" strategies tough.
I dont see your point by bringing up this disaster? Looking for errors and faults in the future will bring us nowhere. It's the present and the future one can do something with, while learning what one can from the past.

The Oil for Food scandal is big in the U.S., primarly becouse the U.S. government wants to get rid of the current leadership and replace it with it's own minions. A certain vindicativeness is probably also influencing this, due to the UN's troublesom interference with Washingtons foreign policies.
I am not saying that there have not been a certain level of corruption going on tough.

I think we in Europe have at least the same freedom as you do in the U.S. But we also provide a security net for our fellow citizens trough taxes. Thats one of the pillars of the european socialism. I fear that you have made socialism==communism, which is not true.

A last parthian shot. If we are to meet, it would have to be in Europe. I will not accept the kind of registration your current immigration check requires (fingerprints and biometric data. It was in fact better in october 2001, just after the attacs, when we visited friends in New York, even if the immigration officers was quite thorough and security was plain insane).

I recommend that you read some of Michael Moores work (and website) with an open mind, and then balances it with e.g. Fox News political comments and what else comes out of Washington. The english and german news are also excellent if you want a balanced view on the world. I follow both U.S. and european news, and try to see both sides..

Oh - Rolf ,-
If you think the make believe film bufoonery of Moore --from a nearby Michigan uppermiddleclass suburb of Flint --NOT flint as he claims -is valid you are sorely misinformed --there are some 60 documented blatent errors and ommissions in that propagandist film .--

He has made millions from it by duping gullable people on false conspiracy theory they seem so desperate to wish to believe --

I,ve had no problem traveling or flying --but agree --there are numerous aspects of travel and securities acts that need changing to make travel and access more friendly again --
Just designed for two that work for the Homeland Security agency --both state changes and more intel should ease travel restriction and checks --
One is assigned to ride airlines as passanger ,-ex marine --enough said .

Please get some factual info on the local bufoon moore ,

I understand your investment and belief in your nations system -it works for some --not all --and realistic factual accessment based in fact is periodically required ,--
this you will not get from sources like moore -

one last partisan comment here as well -
The disconnect made currently to 25 million new free people under self concentual government in Afghanistan and another 25 million in Iraq --11 million of whom voted in recent elections despite terrorist dangers with your own nation ,---may indicate how quickly these new nations may pass yours in living standards ,-before you dismiss this consider how many former eastern bloc soviet nations in EU are now free and have equal or better standards of living in EU .
Also the unmentioned dividend of not having some 7,000 interbalistic missles pointed at various EU and US targets by a former Soviet Union and its 30 satelite territories now numerous independant free nations ---like yours .

That's the point Carl, follow both extreme sides somewhat, read the middle more carefully and decide for yourself whats the truth and what your opinion is.
Bill O'Reilly of Fox and Michael Moore are antipodes..

No -moore is a ficticious movie maker --oreily is a talk show --not news
Fox channel has numerous shows --the news report is anchored by Brit Hume --very credible --a viewer will see numerous opinions clearly expressed on this news show --not the case in others --
lets review --moore ---a big fat stupid now rich white guy that makes fictional movies and calls them documentaries
oreily --not too different but at least attempts to present different veiws and fact ,-
Brit Hume --news reporter anchor -previously employed by NBC etc etc
news sources read --inc - Washington Post -NY Times -CNN -foriegn affairs -enjoy National Review and Weekly Standard to balance those .
The N R has periodic articles on the EURO PRESS ,-sorry it is somewhat bias but do read what the EU press is stating --
http://www.nationalreview.com/europress/europress-archive.asp

here is a sample of Denis Boyle,s reporting on the EU Press
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January 28, 2005, 8:17 a.m.
Grim Tales
Want to get scared? Ignore what you see. Believe only what you read.



My late grandfather, Claude, distinguished combat veteran of the first World War and a man who could not say the word "France" without first saying "disgusting" or "ridiculous" or "gol-darn" or worse, felt about the press — such as it was in Kansas way back when — the way he felt about France. Once, fed up with a local newspaper, he abridged a half-hour fulmination on the idiocies of the midwestern media by simply picking up the rag, walking over to a window, looking out at a torrential downpour and muttering, "According to the paper, it's partly cloudy."


This was in the '60s, when creating alternative realities was a chemical enterprise that would soon become a journalistic one. These days, disputing what any fool can plainly see is a sacred calling in the global press, but of course the Europeans do it with a special anti-American panache, fueled by the reelection of George W. Bush. The reality of another four years of Dubya has created in the media a demand for a parallel universe unlike any since a generation of shaggy noggins first nodded out to Surrealistic Pillow. Here are some headlines from a place called lost hope:


Americans Conflicted on 2nd Term
This, it probably goes without saying, is an International Herald Tribune pick-up from the New York Times, where no news is good news — and conversely all news is bad news, especially if the subject is Bush or Iraq. The idea here is as easy as 1-2-3, and it's been noticed before by others: If the real world happens in a way you don't like, 1. write the story that comforts you, then 2. make a poll to validate your comfort and then 3. extrapolate a more pleasing reality!


World fears new Bush era
World fears clowns, pit-bulls, and falling skies, too. The people who conducted the global poll before the U.S. election — reported in English here by Deutsche Welle, but trumpeted around the planet — showed Kerry the clear leader over Bush among people who cannot vote. Last week, they were back for a post-election recount, just to make sure they got it right. Sure enough, as the Guardian's headline above makes plain, Bush really did lose, morally, anyway, and as a result, now we're all losers too: "The survey also indicated for the first time that dislike of Mr Bush is translating into a dislike of Americans in general." Not to mention Americans in uniform. Like the previous GlobalScan poll (want to participate in one? Here you go!), the European media loved this story: Here it is in Handelsblatt for the strudel crowd. The subtext of this is simple: If all you care about are stupid numbers, then, sure — Bush won. But as everyone in the media realizes, democracy has nothing to do with numbers. If what you really care about are ideas, the results are different, because, according to experts...


Democracy is dangerous
Leftwing Europeans know democracy is a crackpot notion because it figured prominently in George W. Bush's inauguration address. Paleolithic Marxist Eric Hobsbawm helpfully explains democracy's illusory qualities in (yet another) Guardian piece, this one borrowed from Le Monde Diplomatique. When Marxism had a shot, chaps like Hobsbawm were dreaming nightly of a single, global political model — theirs. Now that messy democracy is the planet's political play, the idea that all people should rule their governments is suddenly ludicrous: "If gas stations, iPods, and computer geeks are the same worldwide, why not political institutions?" Indeed. Hear that, you computer geeks?


Torture in Iraq! Now more than ever!
That's a paraphrase of a Le Monde headline, but unless you've spent the last year in an Iraqi jail getting the styling gel beat out of you, you've seen it before. It's now accepted wisdom in Greater Vermont — and especially in the French and German parts of it — that in Iraq and Afghanistan, U.S. soldiers are keeping themselves busy killing civilians and torturing innocent British booksellers (that is, if this Guardian item resembles anything approaching the truth). Nothing turns reality on its head like huffing your own rhetoric. Use enough of it and you start hallucinating. For example, according to Belgium's La Libre if you're the formerly sane Ted Turner, Fox's Rupert Murdoch is Hitler. And if you're a George Soros's favorite like Human Rights Watch, there's a torturer behind the wheel of every passing Humvee.

Now, last time I was in this space, I made a crack about the "torture" that took place at Abu Ghraib, and my mailbox instantly filled with earnest e-mails wanting to know why I didn't condemn torture. So here: I hate torture. I just don't happen to buy the notion that torture is a routine policy of the U.S. government in Iraq or elsewhere. And I also don't buy the notion that just because HRW reports it, it's true. "Human Rights Watch reveals human rights abuse" is as compelling as "Greenpeace announces environmental crisis." There are billions of dollars at stake in the crisis industry and millions of uh...what's the polite word here? NPR listeners sending in their green. None of them is going to dig very deep when they read, "Greenpeace lauds environmental progress."

As the BBC reports, this week Human Rights Watch has alleged Iraqi forces have been "systematically" doing nasty things to terrorists. This follows by a few days HRW's effort to lobby against Alberto Gonzales, as reported by Le Nouvel Observateur, and a charge that bacon-packers are being abused in U.S. meat plants. Imagine if they were Iraqi bacon-packers! Look, if it's proved that some American official is putting the government's stamp of approval on actual torture — like, let's say, the sort of thing Islamic fundamentalists do to their prisoners — then there'll be hell to pay, no doubt. So far, that isn't the case, and hysterically yelling "torture!" every day or so won't make it so. It will take a Michael Moore movie to do that.


Auschwitz adds to U.S.-EU friction
This headline, on a Judy Dempsey item in the International Herald Tribune, is this week's ultimate in bizarre, out-of-reality reporting. According to Dempsey, "the attendance of Vice President Dick Cheney is a bitter disappointment" to "prominent Poles" — who apparently represent the entire EU — because Cheney is not Bush. After all, writes Dempsey, "The Auschwitz ceremony will include President Vladimir Putin of Russia, President Horst Köhler of Germany, President Jacques Chirac of France and President Moshe Katzav of Israel." As evidence of how "Auschwitz adds to US-EU Friction," Dempsey quotes "veteran intellectuals," including MEP Bronislaw Geremek: "I would like to see the president of the United States attend the...Auschwitz commemoration." Who wouldn't? But why? Says Geremek, a historian, "[I]t should be said that the Holocaust helped to create the European Union. It was the answer to the totalitarian ideology created on European soil, such as Auschwitz."

A digression: I admire Prof. Geremek. But it should not be said that the Holocaust helped to create the European Union. In fact, the European Union owes its provenance to Walther Funk and other architects of Hitler's New Order, not to Auschwitz. Historian Mark Mazower, in Dark Continent: Europe's Twentieth Century, claims that the Funk plan "...bore more than a passing resemblance to the post-war Common Market. The 'New Order' beloved of the youthful technocrats at the Reich Ministry of Economics involved the economic integration of western Europe and the creation of a tariff-free zone." Eugen Weber, writing a few years ago in The Atlantic (here, if you're a subscriber), agrees: "The European Union, its attendant bureaucracy, even the euro, all appear to stem from the Berlin-Vichy collaboration." To the extent that France did more than its share to fill the concentration camps for their partners, the Germans, and that their mutual hatred of Jews brought them both closer together, Geremek may have a point.

Of course, the real story about Bush, Poland, and the EU was not to be seen in the IHT. It was in Die Zeit, where Poland's Wladyslaw Bartoszewski explained the reasons for Polish loyalty toward the US, and in Brussels, where, according to Handelsblatt, Polish representatives didn't take very kindly to leftwing British and German efforts to spare German feelings by attempting to identify Auschwitz as a "Polish camp" in the official EU resolution commemorating the 60th anniversary of the liberation. The issue blossomed into a Brussels-sized furor, according to the EU Observer. Schroder had to call off his MEPs, who finally agreed to admit that "Nazis" had built the camps.

Meanwhile, Davids Medienkritik has collected a bunch of clips from the German press in which the Auschwitz-Abu Ghraib connection is finally explained. A sample, from TAZ: "The torture scandal of the US army in Abu Ghraib shows that sadism has a place in civilized nations, while Guantánamo Bay proves that the principle of the concentration camp...today is upheld with pride by the leading nation of the civilized world."

Now there's an artificial reality any German can uphold with pride.


ITEMS
Romancing the Stone: The mystification surrounding Bush's upcoming voluntary mortification at the hands of Chirac and Schroder continues to grow. Writing in the IHT, John Vinocur observes Bush's curious embrace of self-humiliation: "By spending time in Germany with Schroder in February during his trip to Europe, President George W. Bush is offering a sign of consideration that acknowledges both the likelihood of the chancellor's being around for the long haul and more active German leadership in Europe."

Whatever exists of an opposition in Germany is running, in a haphazard way, on what might not be described as a pro-American position, but at least the German conservatives are not surviving by promoting the widespread hatred of America, as Schroder has done. On his European fact-finding mission, Thomas Friedman did his reporting from "the Pony Club, a trendy bar/beauty parlor in East Berlin" — well, this is a Times columnist, remember. "There is nothing that the Europeans want to hear from Bush, there is nothing that they will listen to from Bush that will change their minds about him or the Iraq war or U.S. foreign policy," Friedman writes in the IHT. "Bush is more widely and deeply disliked in Europe than any U.S. president in history." Of course, that won't stop Bush doing his best to prop up Gerhard. The theory apparently is that what Bush was able to do in Pennsylvania when he campaigned with Arlen Specter to defeat a conservative Republican will work for him in Germany. Maybe if Chirac comes up with a Title IX for French lady wrestlers, Bush will campaign for him, too.

Goodbye Lisbon. The Lisbon strategy for bringing the EU into competitive parity with the U.S. by 2010, has become as popular as Portuguese folk music, according to a round-up in Eursoc: "If business leaves the EU for friendlier states, it is unlikely to be lured back by the promise of even higher taxes to pay for workers languishing on welfare. As Europe's population ages and the working population dwindles, companies will not be tempted to invest in economies which must dedicate ever higher proportions of GDP to pension schemes."

Careful! That pipkin's loaded! Binge drinking is a big problem in Britain. At closing time, drunkards empty out of the pubs, fill the gutters, fight in the streets, relieve themselves on shrubs and on each other, and break into people's homes — with impunity, since the Labour government recently ruled that burglars should be protected from violence. The government's proposal to stem the tide of closing-time drunks is to abolish closing times. The Daily Mail is furious, accusing the government of lunacy. According to the The Publican, a trade paper, landlords aren't going to tolerate that kind of treatment by the press, so, as they edge their customers toward blind drunkenness, they'll also be telling them not to read the Mail. Not while they drink. Not even while they drive. The Times's patron saint of sanctimony, Simon Jenkins, is outraged at their outrage. "The alcohol lobby is Britain's version of America's gun lobby," types Jenkins. That's exactly the problem, of course.

Well, I took the time to read that quite long post. If this is what you base your opinion on, it's flawed. This is biased comments from an U.S media corporation on what a few of the E.U based media (corporations) write. If you had actually read the sources, you would perhaps have better insight in what they wrote, why and the quality of that media. Thats why I read what Fox reports, but I always bear in mind that the best thing that came from Fox was the Simpsons (the same applies to Moore of course, his best work was Bowling for Columbine).

And I really think that Moore and O'Reilly are antipodes..

I dont think we will get further in this discussion at present, and I'll let i be from here. We can continue by private messages if you want to, instead of boring the rest of the readers of this thread.

Agreed --thanks --enjoyed the exchange -in working at the design board ,-it was a welcome periodic break .

I really enjoy NR and often laugh at Denis Boyles reports on the EURO Press --once you know the players its humorous and one begins to understand the ingrained bias of all human beings .
Suppose the leftist euro press and mikey moore have much in common --
I don,t watch oreily or care for the bufoonery of moore -
please don,t take either too seriously --no one here does !!
Thought you might enjoy Boyle,s perspective --particularly on the origins of EURO constitution -

My 4 kids love the Simpsons --http://www.thesimpsons.com/index.html

Some things the US exports the average person here does not comprehend the power of images and effect --the US culture is often very crass --All I can tell you is most think so also and fortunately have a huge selection and variety of entertainment and news sources ,-most simpley change the station or turn it all off and go sailing -
where I,m headed --now -

take care Rolf
wishing all the best to you and yours
Carl

[quote]
To bad that your present government doesn't have the same view on the needing countries of the world.

Former Yugoslavia was a disaster nobody wanted to get involved in,

Rolf:

Thanks for keeping the communications up. I just want to get one more thing clear from you: No one was suppose to stop the genocide in Yogosavia; or Vietnam; or Ruganda or the middle east? You want us all to back away again until no one can actually afford a sailboat?

OOPs, So Sorry.

You finished in a gentleman's fashion. It was fun watching you two guys and I'm sorry I missed the last two messages.

God bless America; see you in the future.

Wyatt