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Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) #52086
06/30/05 07:30 AM
06/30/05 07:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
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The Netherlands
mbalhuizen Offline OP
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mbalhuizen  Offline OP
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I was wondering if anyone could provide with with some details on typical settings for the mastrotation, and/or the operation of the mast-rotator(?) in general.

Kind regards,
Martijn


Martijn Balhuizen
I20-The Netherlands
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: mbalhuizen] #52087
06/30/05 10:16 AM
06/30/05 10:16 AM
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Virginia Beach, VA
Thomm225 Offline
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Hi Martijn,

The Taipan website gives a pretty good explanation on rotation and some other stuff.

Go to www.taipan.asn.au
then at the top Click on Tips and Tricks
click Cat 4.9

Tom Turlington
I17R #124

Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: Thomm225] #52088
06/30/05 10:47 AM
06/30/05 10:47 AM
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The Netherlands
mbalhuizen Offline OP
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Tom,

Tx! I have printed the pages and will readup tonight.

rgds,
Martijn


Martijn Balhuizen
I20-The Netherlands
Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: Thomm225] #52089
07/01/05 06:33 AM
07/01/05 06:33 AM
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mbalhuizen Offline OP
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I still have some questions on the rotator javascript:void(0)
:

Does anyone know why the Inter17 does not use a rotator limiter? Or is it just that I have a model without them?
Should I install them?

The other thing I do not get is how it actually works: I understand turning the mast nakes it easier to bend, by bending the mast I create a flatter sail. But why would I rotate going downwind, would i not like to have a full sail isntead? Would I not rotate going upwind instead to get a flatter sail?

Many questions here, sorry. I have not got this rotater thing sussed yet.


Martijn Balhuizen
I20-The Netherlands
Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: mbalhuizen] #52090
07/01/05 07:14 AM
07/01/05 07:14 AM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Refer to this thread linked below and this image that was posted by Luiz. It's all about creating an efficiently shaped airfoil.

Rotation Thread


[Linked Image]


Jake Kohl
Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: mbalhuizen] #52091
07/01/05 07:24 AM
07/01/05 07:24 AM
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Jimbo Offline
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The fact that the mast stiffness is different in its long and short cross-sectional axis is purely a secondary issue. The primary one is of course effecting a smooth transition between the edge of the mast and the sail on the lee side of the rig. Since the sail is set at diferent angles to the boat at different points sail, the mast angle must change too, if a smooth transition is to be maintained. Also the farther off the wind you sail, the fuller the draft the sail is trimmed for and therefore the more severe the angle of mast rotation needed. The differential in bending stiffness in the fore and aft mast axis can work for or against you depending on the boat and conditions. Diamond wire/spreader adjustments are the usual ways this bending is managed, though rotation can be a complicating factor here, so that a compromise between the needed rotation and desired bend has to be reached.

Jimbo

Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: Jake] #52092
07/01/05 07:44 AM
07/01/05 07:44 AM
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Virginia Beach, VA
Thomm225 Offline
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If you really want to get deep into the subject of rotation/prebend go to

Landenberger-sailing.com
tuning guides
A cat tuning

Be prepared to read and reread ...........

Tom

Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: Thomm225] #52093
07/01/05 08:23 AM
07/01/05 08:23 AM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Tom: Excellent reading, thanks for posting! Andrew have obviously re-vamped his website since last time I visited.
The other articles/guides was very good as well.



Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: Thomm225] #52094
07/01/05 08:38 AM
07/01/05 08:38 AM
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mbalhuizen Offline OP
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Thanks everybody, great links and info. Will try things out on the water during the weekend.

TX!
Martijn


Martijn Balhuizen
I20-The Netherlands
Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: mbalhuizen] #52095
07/01/05 05:41 PM
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scooby_simon Offline
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Quote
Does anyone know why the Inter17 does not use a rotator limiter? Or is it just that I have a model without them?
Should I install them?


Yes, install one.

But as a general guide

Downwind (with Kite I assume)
90 degrees or very slightly less.

Upwind, 90 degrees till trapping out, then point to the shrouds till overpowered with max downhaul, then ease the traveller and pull in the rotation until sailing in very high winds (35+) the mast should be pointing at the back beam.

These are the my starting points, you might want to go +/- a little on them for your own style of sailing/ weight



F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

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Re: no rotation limiter? [Re: mbalhuizen] #52096
07/01/05 11:28 PM
07/01/05 11:28 PM
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samevans Offline
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mbalhuizen,

I am amazed that your boat didn't come with a rotation limiter.
The Inter 18, 20 and Nacra F18 have one.
Does the mast have two through holes just above the boom mount?

Without a limiter your mast must be be rotating way too far forward when going upwind and killing your performance.

Re: no rotation limiter? [Re: samevans] #52097
07/02/05 05:04 AM
07/02/05 05:04 AM
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Virginia Beach, VA
Thomm225 Offline
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Actually, the I 17 (I17R) has the same set up as the I 20. You can set rotation anywhere from about 0 degrees to 90.

Tom

Martijn,

A good place to start would be about 45 degrees for upwind (and decreasing as the wind comes up)and about 75 or so downwind since you will be wildthinging I'm guessing. Some of the others sailors may know better on the downwind. I have been sailing with a spinnaker the last three years.............

The Taipan website above spells it out for light, medium, and heavy winds.

Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: scooby_simon] #52098
07/02/05 08:10 AM
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Scooby,

My 2000 I-17 aluminum mast boat has a mast rotation device as stock equipment.

Are we talkng about the same thing?

There is a stainless 'arm'( pointing aft) about 12 inches long attached to the mast about 4 inches above the boom attachment.

Then the pulley system and line, that adjusts the whole deal, attaches to the aft point of the rotator arm, to pulleys on the boom,..then the line goes down to tne tramp,..under the tranp,..to exit at cleats port and starboard..just aft of the side shrouds..

..you do not have this set up stock?

regards,

Bruce
I-17
( on the beach at Tampa )

Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: brobru] #52099
07/02/05 08:31 AM
07/02/05 08:31 AM
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scooby_simon Offline
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Quote
Scooby,

My 2000 I-17 aluminum mast boat has a mast rotation device as stock equipment.

Are we talkng about the same thing?

There is a stainless 'arm'( pointing aft) about 12 inches long attached to the mast about 4 inches above the boom attachment.

Then the pulley system and line, that adjusts the whole deal, attaches to the aft point of the rotator arm, to pulleys on the boom,..then the line goes down to tne tramp,..under the tranp,..to exit at cleats port and starboard..just aft of the side shrouds..

..you do not have this set up stock?

regards,

Bruce
I-17
( on the beach at Tampa )


Yes I have this, woiuld not sail any boat with a rotating mast without it !

IMO it is a stock item.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

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Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: scooby_simon] #52100
07/03/05 08:40 AM
07/03/05 08:40 AM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Are you guys talking about rotation limiters or rotation inducers? If you have a boom equiped rigg, a rotation inducer is not required (the boomless 6.0 required one). Typically, the angle and pressure from the mainsheet will tend to rotate the mast so all you need is a limiter.


Jake Kohl
Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: brobru] #52101
07/04/05 03:10 AM
07/04/05 03:10 AM
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The Netherlands
mbalhuizen Offline OP
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It seems there is some confusion about my question, sorry about not being clear.

I do have a rotation arm as described by bruce, it is indeed a stock item.

What I do not have are the two lines, one each side of the boom that run through a alu cleat limited by a black ball.

The manual for "Inters and F18" states:

Tie the 5/16" rotator limiter lines to the diamond turnbuckels and lead them back to the clam cleats on the boom, and install the stopper balls.

It them goes on the explain the rotator setup bruce described.

I am stil not sure weather I would need them or not. I have noticed that the mast does not easily rotate to 90 degrees I have to force them by hand, especially with light winds. More wind makes the angels easier to setup.

I also find that they are not so easy to adjust while trapping.


Thanks for all you time and info,

Martijn


Martijn Balhuizen
I20-The Netherlands
Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: scooby_simon] #52102
07/04/05 03:16 AM
07/04/05 03:16 AM
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mbalhuizen Offline OP
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Tx Simon,

Yes, I am sailing with the kite (3 years now) and immensly enjoy it. It was the main reason to go for the I17, the FxOne was still to new (=expensive 2nd hand).

I have started using the figures you have described. I got them of the taipan website I learned about from an earlier post.

regards,
Martijn



Martijn Balhuizen
I20-The Netherlands
Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: mbalhuizen] #52103
07/04/05 04:07 AM
07/04/05 04:07 AM
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Martijn

How old is your boat, my boat is riged so that the controls of the mast rotation come off the boom, down thru 2 holes in the tramp and then out to the side decks. You can just see them here :

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Do you know anyone in NL looking for an Inter 17, I am selling mine ?


Attached Files
52670-Spipole1.jpg (24 downloads)
Last edited by scooby_simon; 07/04/05 04:09 AM.

F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: scooby_simon] #52104
07/04/05 04:37 AM
07/04/05 04:37 AM
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mbalhuizen Offline OP
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I have sail number 35. That would make the boat 5 years old?

I have included a picture to show you what lines I am asking about, the yellow lines.


Your boat looks great!

Matrijn

Attached Files
52671-1.jpg (72 downloads)
Last edited by mbalhuizen; 07/04/05 05:05 AM.

Martijn Balhuizen
I20-The Netherlands
Re: Typical mast-rotation settings (Inter17) [Re: mbalhuizen] #52105
07/04/05 04:52 AM
07/04/05 04:52 AM
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North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Quote

I have started using the figures you have described. I got them of the taipan website I learned about from an earlier post.



The Taipan often runs with less rotation than other boats. The tips giving in the taipan tuning guide are good but you may want to increase the rotation a little beyond what is stated there on your boat. Note that the two boats are using different mast sections; the crosssection of both is noticeable different with the I-17 being teardrop shaped and the Taipan mast being oval shape. The Taipan mast is much thinner (63 mm to about 90 mm on nacra masts).

Wouter



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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