Don't forget the F-18 NA's start monday. with all the new technology that rockledge put toghether with the help of sailmax.biz and reynolds 33(live web casts from the boats) this should be the shiznit.

Guess I should of posted the link
here it is
www.f18naonline.com

...there's an extra boat looking for a driver and crew?

Guys and gals-
There's a big thread on the F16 forum about ISAF rules and designating regattas as "Internationals", "Worlds" or "North American" etc. (especially in the case of undesignated "areas" like North America or Caribbean for example). According to Mary all sailors who compete in these regattas can be banned from participation in "real" ISAF sanctioned events-
May want to check on that and change the "name" prior to the start of the event.
Hate to be a party pooper but Mary was pretty adamant about this stuff in the other thread-

Kirt

Kirt,
As far as I know, ISAF has never formally voiced any objection to any class holding a North American championship. I was just pointing out what the rules technically are, as they were explained to me.

F18 is an ISAF class, so they have to get the permission of the MNA of the country in which the event is being held, and I assume they have done that. But I don't think any of the MNA's in North America really care that the event is called a North American Championship.

Mary

This is the pertinent section.
No mention of North Americans or MNA's as far as I can see.


18. ISAF AND OTHER EVENTS
ISAF approval of World Championships and other Events
18.1 ISAF approval is required for any event that is described as a World Championship, uses
the word “World” in the title of the event, or any of the promoters, organizers or any other
organization officially connected with the event, represents or holds out in any way that
the event is a World Championship or does the foregoing in such a way that the event is
reasonably perceived to be a World Championship.
ISAF Classes (International and Recognized)
18.2 Each ISAF Class is automatically granted the right, subject to the notification requirements
of Regulation 18.10, to hold one annual World Championship.


ISAF Regulations

Bob, it's other places in the regulations somewhere. I just saw it again today. For a continental championship you have to get permission from the MNA of the country in which it is going to be held.

But as I said, it is all moot, because nobody cares -- at least on this side of the Atlantic.

Mary, you may have been thinking of this:



However I don't interpret this is quite the way that I think you may be. These regulations concern the conduct of continentals in a recognized ISAF class . It doesn't say anything about what can or cannot be done in a class that doesn't have recognized international status with ISAF.

Mark.

Mark,
Yep, that's the regulation; and the Formula 18 IS an International class.

And, by the way, it does affect what non-ISAF classes can and cannot do -- the interpretation of that regulation that was given to me is that ISAF international and recognized classes are the ONLY classes that are allowed to hold continental championships. This was further clarified as including championships referred to as North Americans.

Mary, sorry my head was still back in the F16 thread about non-ISAF classes. You are right of course that F18 is an ISAF class. I know we still disagree on the interpretation of Regulation 18.11 - what I believe it means for this case is that (a) only the NAF18 association can organize an F18 NA championship (which they are doing) and (b) if such an event is held in the US (for example) the class association must get the approval of the US Sailing (as the relevant MNA - Regulation 26.8 makes the same point for worlds). I'm sure someone here can tell us whether this happened for the current event.

However this is a separate issue from the one raised by Kirt about competitors being excluded from future events. I don't think there is a problem here. Regulation 19, quoted in part below, is the one that addresses this issue. From 19.4, the three grounds for suspension are (a) gross misconduct (RRS 69.2), (b) use of banned substances (RRS 5) or (c) competing in a prohibited event.

The definition of a prohibited event (19.4.1) includes non-approved world championships (19.4.1.(c)) and events organized by a body not affiliated with an MNA (19.4.1.(d) & RRS 88.1).

The only other clause that could be relevant is 19.4.1.(b) that makes reference to national or international events with certain prizes or benefits and which are not approved by the MNA or ISAF. Regulation 18.16.1 that is referred to here refers to prizes totalling over US$20,000. I don't think the F18 NAs falls into this category. (BTW, the reference to 18.16.1 seems a bit odd to me since the context there is umpire fees.)

So even if the NAF18 association had not, for example, got formal approval from US Sailing to hold the NA's, in my opinion this would not make it a prohibited event in the sense of causing the suspension of ISAF eligibility for competitors in that event.

Anyhow - whatever anyone thinks about all of this tedium, good luck to all the sailors this week! I hope they have a great time and that it is a memorable event for entirely positive reasons.

Mark.

Of course not. Nobody said it would. There's just a "could" hanging out there somewhere in the future, and the future comes closer when we complain about these things.

US SAILING selected this event as the qualifier for the ISAF World Sailing Games. I think they are safe and can be considered to have approval.

Just curious if anyone could give an opinion as to how these “rules” by the ISAF would affect a sailor who crewed on a boat that was involved in an elimination series of "match races" between two boats that eliminated the loser of each "match", with the full “series” being raced between a number of boats of twenty or thirty or so from different countries competing to finally end up with two boats sailing off to determine the eventual winner of the event, even though it wasn't called "worlds" or any similar type of name, BUT there was prize money at the end of the series (and full sponsorship money) of an amount that way passed the maximum amount that the ISAF approved of. Would that relevant "crew" be "banned" from competing in any future ISAF event (or any sailing event at all -19.1 A competitor whose ISAF eligibility has been suspended or revoked shall not engage in any competition in the sport of sailing)??
How would the ISAF rules apply to "profesionally" retained sailors??

And on another line. What would happen to a sailor who sailed a class of cat that wasn’t affiliated with ANY club, state or national sailing authority, or the ISAF, and that class of cat organised their own worlds at which that sailor competed at, then after the event that sailor then registered/joined with a club and through that clubs affiliation with it’s local sailing authority etc up to recognition by the ISAF, and he sailed a Tornado (for example), would he be eligible to compete. Bearing in mind that previously he was literally “off the map” (as was the class that he sailed with) as far as the ISAF was concerned?