I was just looking at Hobie’s Spinnaker add-on package for the Hobie 16. I was interested because the Hobie 16 was not designed with the spinnaker in mind. I also know that the 16 is a pitch pole machine without the spinnaker. Does anyone have any experience putting a chute on a boat that was designed without a spinnaker in mind? How does it affect the boat handling? What goes into the decision of whether or not the boat can handle a spin?

I know I have seen pictures of a Prindle 18 with a spinnaker before (I think it was in a word document on a guy adding a spinnaker). Does anyone who’s boat that was or where the document is?

Matt

Adding the spin to the Tornado actually settle's it down on the off wind legs. The bows tend to stay up out of the waves more...danger of burying the leeward tip is much reduced.

Mike.

From what I hear about H16's with spin is the sail actually creates lift on the bows and reduces pitch-poling going off wind.

put a long enough pole on the chute and you'll be ok with the bows.

Get a fat kid for the rear crossbeam.

Humm, I think I've met your guy a fews times in the past, a most perculiar persona. He comes with light and vanishes with darkness. And all the time he presents himself unannounced and goes hence without a wisper of good-bye. He always looks me straight in the eye when I gaze at him; never answers back though, or make a sound. Not even when I can clearly see him take a breath and move his lips.

Kind of a flat character though. He has been that way ever since I can remember.


Anyhow, here is the link you are looking for

http://www.geocities.com/kustzeilen/Genaker/

OK....now that was funny.

Does he just "take your breathe away," Wouter?

Trey
N20 314
Layline Rigging
www.velocitysailing.com

Oops, we overloaded Wouter's website. Is there another link?
-Rob

Sorry, all me resources are in the F16 side of things. There isn't another link, just have to wait a few hours and she will come back online automatically.

To Matt : In short

Spi makes boats more behaved on downwind legs, especially so in strong winds.

P18 without a jib can be done, just rake the mast a little bit more forward.

Tacking is more difficult but with the right technique it is should be really doable even under the worst conditions. make sure you slack the main at exactly the right time and that you make a roll-tack. Get these two things right and she will tack relatively well.



Wouter

Well, it is true that everytime I that spend more than a quick glance on him, he is always fiddling with his hair or tie and generally trying to make himself look better then me. At times we have a little bet going on of who can suck in their belly the longest. He is an incredibally competitive guy and never backs down first. But I wouldn't say that he is sufficiently attractive to take my breath away. Poor fellow, maybe he is compensating for something.

Wouter

Haha,

I love your “poems” about “My Guy.” That is great.

Exactly the article I was looking for, thank you.

I am surprised that the spinnaker would lift the leeward hulls; I guess I have to think about that for a bit.

Thank you for your replies.

Matt

It doesn't, but that is not the point. The point is that the spi DOES calm down the boat alot WHICH feels just as if the bows are lifted. Mathematically and physically speaking the feeling is very much correct but the explanation isn't. However, reality only adheres to what truly happens (feels) and not whether our human explanation for the phenomenon is correct or not.

It will be far to complex to get into this in detail and unless you are science junky it would be pointless trying to explain it as well.

Main point still is and will always be that adding a spi will make the boat more controllable downwind and will make the boat feel more resistance to pitchpoling and sure enough with the spi set you do pitchpole alot less often.

The difference, when the spi is handled right, is such than no crew nowadays sails without a set kite on the downwind legs NO MATTER how strong the winds. Personally, I much rather sail SINGLEHANDED downwind in a blow with a set kite than without. That is how much more in control you can feel.

This all has been my experience on both the Prindle 18 that I added a spi to as my new boat the Taipan F16. So my advice to all is to start slowly with the spi and build up skill gratually but also to work consistantly towards a skill level where you can always pull a kite no matter what the conditions are.

Good luck !

Wouter

I agree with you - as long as you sail the boat conservativly the spin works great in big wind. In big waves (which often go with big wind on the ocean) we put the crew back on the tramp and stop heating it up as much. I throw the hotstick back in the water and steer off the rudder arm/cross bar connection which gives more precision and speed - important when you get hit with a header puff.

I noticed that they also threw the hotstick back in the Hans Wallen Tornado video. I have mimicked that on several occasions and it works well. I don't fly a kite on my boat mainly due to budget constraints. I still have a hard time figuring out how it settles a boat down. It seems it will still make you PP, just a few knots faster when you fly over the bridle. I am a simpleton when it comes to physics so I will just do the "I don't know how it settles the boat, but I'll take your word for it" mentality. I've never even been on a kite flying boat yet. Anyone need crew in Panama City?

-Rob V.
Panama City
Nacra 5.2

I confirm your comments.

I more often than not throw my tiller extension overboard as well and steer by the rudder arms as well. Same reasons plus on my boat the crew is often behind me on these legs where my non-adjustable tiller extension is seriously in her way. But I would throw the extension in the water even if it was adjustable, the control is just better.

Wouter

With regard to budget to fly a spi.

I'm still sailing with my 2003 kite, they can last quite long. The AHPC snuffer system costed me 250 US$ and works like one of the best. Spi itself should costs about 800 US$. Other hardwire and lines should cost no more 400 US$ in total. In short the costs have come down considerably in the last few years.

You can do it even more cheaply if you find yourself some secondhand I-17 or F16 spi. Sure enough these are around especially since the heavy boys in the I-17 class may now use a larger spinnaker ?

Personally, after knowing what I know now about sailing with a spinnaker. I would give it a good try getting one for he budget that you may have.

Wouter

2 years ago I fitted a spinaker-system on 2 Prindle 18's. The age of the boats justified experimenting. The result was that both boats are used with spinaker in alle kind of lessons and courses. The boat stabilizes remarkably downwind when using the spinaker.

I also had the opportunity to try the Hobie 16 with spinaker. Also the Hobie is much more stabile with the spinaker. It could be more stabile but the shape of the hulls prevent it from being more forgiving. Same problem is with the Prindle 18.

Don't be afraid of pitchpoling when using the spinaker downwind on the 16. Actually the spinaker compensates the pressure of the mainsail to the mast (specially the top). If you're looking into the way the wind blows in the spinaker it is clear that the spinaker will cause some lifting abilities to the bow of the boat.

Have fun..

Like I wrote earlier, these are very persistant myths.

Sorry Boomer

Wouter

Wouter, it's not complex at all. If the aerodynamic center is lowered, the boat will be more stable. If (by moving the tack well forward) the the aerodynamic center is moved forward and an upward component is added to the lift vector, the boat will be more stable. An extreme yet logical extrapolation of this is the Kiteship kite. Attach that to the bow and it will be lifting the bow, because it's awfully hard to push a rope.

I tried many times to explain the difference between "pushing the bow down less" and "lifting the bows", but it is remarkable how fuzzy such a distinction is for some (most ?) people.

Anyway.

I'm done.

Wouter