Hey All ,

Quick confession - i've knowingly been violating the F16 class rules - I cannot self right USA#300. At 148lbs. i require atleast double digit breeze to assist my recovery from capsize. I've often thought , while practicing alone , "damn , this is really irresponsible , if I capsize I could die out here ; or worse , I might have to beg the help of a monohull sailor...! ".

Question - is the 6kg. tip weight the revised maximum (some talk about stealths being lighter aloft...)? How light would we have to go to make the boat rightable for an average heighted 150lb.er ? Have you found youself alone , capsized and unable to recover ?


PK

ps - righting pole systems are not a consideration for reasons of asthetics.

Don't know about Stealths being lighter aloft, BUT, I can (at just 65Kg) right the boat on my own in the lightest of breezes - I did a series of deliberate capsizes with the club rescue boat standing by just in case

BUT to do it I had to stand right on the tip of the lower board, and I WAS starting to get very worried as it started to bend! It held however and up she came.

Since then I've been over once in a blow on my own (probably around 18-20 mph) and again she came up real easy without having to resort to bouncing on the board.

Perhaps it's technique?

Hiya John

technique* - ? Trust me, i've had ample opportunity to perfect this...

Doc and I have capsized in the same regatta , a race or two apart. He can "barely", recover in light stuff at 180lbs. ...

* blow : downhall , mainsheet ,traveller - douse. double wrap
recovery cord on trap hook and hike flat and forward to point bows into wind etc. ....

... wait a second - "end of the board ..."... ! This i've not tried (and am frankly skeered) .

Thanks,

PKilkenny

Throw a pillow case in with your gear.

I can not quite right my boat in the very light stuff by myself. (Have not tried it at the end of the board, and it may work, 'cause with no wind the tip will clear but I need about 5 more lbs to come the rest of the way over)

Fill the pillow case with water and throw it over your shoulder. It drains pretty fast depending on how new a case your wife lets you steal, but there is plenty of weght then out far and the boat will fly up.

Matt

Hey PK.
Here is something to try. Next time you go out, take a 30 Gallon hefty trash bag with you keep it in the tramp pocket. If you flip, try and get it as full of water once you are trying to get the boat back over, start picking it up out of the water. I used to be able to right a N5.5Uni at 125lbs with the method.In 5-10knts. It all boils down to coordination i.e. how and when you start trying to lift it out of the water.Water being roughly 10lbs per Gal, typically I never had to lift it very much out of the water to give me the added weight needed to bring the boat over. Once it reached the falling point, I went for the striker to keep the boat from flipping back the other way. I used to tie a loop in my righting line to hook into so I could lean over and pull the trash bag out of the water, not alway the safest, but at least I was still attached to the boat once it came over, and being a uni, it typically went head to wind/irons anyway, so it was not going to sail off with me being towed behind.
Good Luck

Matt and Craig ,

Thank you - seems like such an obvious solution (now...)...

Is the official tip wt. still 6kgs. as listed on the F16 site ?


Paul


PS

Matt , have you completed an xj yet ? Have you seen Ben Hall's hybrid xj ?

I weight 182 lbs myself and I'm able to right the Taipan F16 solo in all conditions. However I think the tipping point for light winds righting of the Taipan 4.9/F16 is to be found around 155 lbs. Wearing a full wetsuit and gear will help over wearing just a T-shirt/trapeze and bouyancy aid.

I will give two answers in this post.

First, I think Matt and Craig gave the best solutions. Simply because the difference between being able to right the Taipan and not being to right the Taipan seems like only a couple of kg's (lbs). Only a few liters of seawater hung of your shoulders will tip the scales. The daggerboard should be able to take the load of a man standing on them but it is also easy to damage the fine trailing edge or hurt yourself when you slide off.

In the way of rigting bags you have many options. One of the simpler ones is just a medium size army bag. You know the kind that is just a big cylinder with a string on one end to close it. Fill the bag and hook the string after closing the bag from your trapeze hook while running the string and bag off your shoulder.


My second answer is on the topic of tip weight :

The Taipan mast has a tip weight of about 7.5 kg's. The 6.0 kg's tip weight as named in the class rules is the revised weight and this will allow 1.5 kg * 8.5 mtr / 1.1 = 11 kg lighter skippers to right such a mast in comparison to a Taipan superwing mast. Pretty much a 6 kg tipweight mast should allow any 65 kg (140 lbs) skipper to right the boat. This mast must then be made of carbon, you can't get that low with aluminium.

So you could get a carbon mast with minimal F16 tipweight and be done. The Stealth F16's actually do have these and thus can be righted by significantly lighter crews/skippers.

But gettting a carbon mast is pricy as you also will need a new mainsail to go with that.



I guess your best option is a righting bag, cheapest and you are not far away from the minimum weight required to right the boat.

Wouter

You guys are clearly not taking your sailing anywhere near seriously enough. Sorry, but it had to be said.

Forget all this carrying binbags around - just eat more bacon sandwiches and drink more beer.....

Problem solved

Wouter,

As always, every synapse in the left hemisphere of my brain thanks you !

George,

My left brain , palate and digestive tract are in full agreement w/ the bacon sandwiches and Fosters suggestion !


PS

I love my Taipan , the Blades Matt is building are fast as hell...This said, has anyone else noticed how every time an issue of design/performance limitation is raised on this forum the Stealth has already innovated / adopted a solution?

Well, the Stealths are actually good boats.

Many go off on how the Stealths look or how they go "humm" about some fitting; but on the water the Stealths are certainly true F16 boats. They got the speed, they got sails by the right sailmaker (Landenberger) and the systems on these boats do work well. Sure every sailor will find a thing or two that they don't like about the stealth but honestly I personally can name a thing or two that I don't like about my own Taipan F16 and I've build and fully optimized that one myself ! Not everything I thought out worked as good as planned.

I think it is just human nature to always find something wrong, no matter how minor, about anything. But the overall picture, where you compare all the good points to the weaker points, is very bright. If you compare any F16 to some of the boats that we compete with, like the Hobie 16, then the overall picture is just as bright as a supernova.

Cheaper in purchase, 15%-20% faster, 40 kg lighter, solo rightable, and shitloads more fun because of the spinnaker.

I think I've said it now for many years. I think the Stealths are a good deal. I personally drool over a Blade, lets get that straight. But that still doesn't change my favourable perception of the Stealths.

Good F16 boat for a very attractive price. And you get a few cool things like T-foils and a carbon mast to go with it for that basic price of £7600 incl EU taxes (= 11.200 Euro's)

(for non EU residents => 9500 Euro's ex taxes = 11.400 US$ ex taxes)

www.stealthmarine.co.uk


Wouter

I was going to say that in jest, but it was too simple an answer!!!!!

More BEER Barkeep!!!!

Really when I owned my 5.5 uni, I was too cheap to buy a Bag System from Murrays. So an OLD wise sailor gave me the hefty suggestion and it came in really handy!!!..........and CHEAP!!!

What happens when that bio-degradable hefty bag splits?...

You pull another one out of the Box!!!




If you are talking about it splitting while you are righting, it hardly even comes out of the water so it was never a problem. It gives you just enough leverage and extra weight to help you get the boat flipping back over so you can catch it. On the Plus side I used it back on the beach for Trash disposal and tossed it, so I alway had a "Fresh" one on the boat!