| Re: Lucky Escapes...?
[Re: ironman]
#58241 09/29/05 08:24 PM 09/29/05 08:24 PM |
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,718 St Petersburg FL Robi
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 2,718 St Petersburg FL | I think for a situation like you have described to happen it must be blowing pretty darn hard. If it is blowing a lot, alot towards where you feal deep down in your gut that you shouldnt be out, then dont go out. Now if you are caught in the middle of the bay/ocean/lake or whatever body of water you sail in and all of a sudden the weather gets bad and you have your small child onboard, you must get into survival mode and make sure you sail the boat in a way for it not to capsize. Obviously I have stated something along the lines of common sense. If you have a gut fealing, just follow it. Because there is something just not right. Dont be fearfull. Everything has a certain danger to it. Even driving down to the beach can be dangerous. I am sure you do that more often than sail. | | | Re: Lucky Escapes...?
[Re: ironman]
#58242 09/30/05 01:32 AM 09/30/05 01:32 AM |
Joined: May 2002 Posts: 1,037 Central California ejpoulsen
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Posts: 1,037 Central California | have you ever been trapped under the boat by rigging or found yourself stuck in the sea waiting for someone to pick you up? I have had a very close call: Sailing my Nacra 5.0 with my 11 year old (at the time) in fresh conditions. We were on a screaming reach. I was trapping and he was on the tramp. We stuffed a bow hard, I lost my footing, and I swung forward in front of the front cross beam and got sucked under the boat (or run over)...still hooked on the trap wire. I was being pushed by the water very hard further and further under the tramp, and the trap wire was held extremely tight across the front beam, so tight that it was impossible to unhook myself. Luckily my son understood my screaming and gasping enought to steer the boat into the wind. That slowed the boat enough for my escape. Although I'm a strong swimmer, I definitely could have drowned that day. I'm looking with interest at the new hook designs coming out. I would much rather risk being separated from my boat (by unhooking) than trapped under it.
Eric Poulsen A-class USA 203 Ultimate 20 Central California
| | | Re: Lucky Escapes...?
[Re: ejpoulsen]
#58243 09/30/05 10:04 AM 09/30/05 10:04 AM |
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 292 Ontario, Canada Captain_Dave
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Posts: 292 Ontario, Canada | Eric,
I am relatively new to the sport and I too have a young son. Although he is too young to join me on the boat now, one day that will change. Your experience has not changed my desire to eventually sail with my son. What it does, is give me another piece of valuble information regarding the various scenarios where risk is involved. This is very important to me because without this information I cannot properly assess my own risks, plan ahead, and manage the risk to the best of my ability.
To me, there seems to be a general reluctance within the Cat community in seriously discussing what "can go wrong" on a catamaran. Such discussion is often brushed-off as fear-mongering or minimized entirely as inconsequential. For new guys like myself, this creates real difficulty when it comes to risk awareness/managment and choosing the safest equipment. In addition, when someone shares the experience, as you have, it gives the rest of us the opportunity to visualize ourselves in that particular danger and also visialize a course of action back to safety...priceless!
Thanks very much,
Dave | | | Re: Lucky Escapes...?
[Re: ironman]
#58245 10/05/05 09:20 PM 10/05/05 09:20 PM |
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 943 East Gippsland, Australia Tim_Mozzie
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Posts: 943 East Gippsland, Australia | Yachting Australia have issued a "prescription to rule 40.2" which reads as follows:-
"ISAF is conducting a detailed investigation into the practical application of rule 40.2 from which it is anticipated that an international standard will be established so that sailors know exactly what equipment fits within this rule. ISAF is also undertaking a programme to alert sailors to the dangers of entrapment by harnesses and ways to reduce the risk of entrapment.
As it is improbable that these studies can be completed and a standard produced in a time which will enable rule 40.2 to take effect on 1 January 2006, Yachting Australia prescribes that the implementation of rule 40.2 will not occur on 1 January 2006 but on a future date to be advised, and which Yachting Australia considers to be the first practical date."
Tim Shepperd Mosquito 1775 Karma Cat
| | | Re: Lucky Escapes...?
[Re: Captain_Dave]
#58246 10/10/05 09:29 AM 10/10/05 09:29 AM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | Capt. Dave...I too have raced with a young son, from his age 6-11, first on a Hobie 18, then a Nacra 5.5 SL, then the F18HT Bimare Jav 2, then the Inter 20. A couple things I would recommend. First, get a self tacking jib. The loads on the jib sheets when it's blowing will be too great for a youngster (or small woman if you are lucky enough to be sailing with one  ) so that will help quite a bit. Second, if you are getting a spinnaker boat, rig the halyard so it is very easy to raise and snuff, and think about you being the one doing it with one hand while trying to drive with the other, so make sure you can reach the halyard and sheet from the back seat, unless you intend to let him drive. Three, pick your conditions before you leave the shore! If there is a big wind and a high probability you will crash, stay on the shore. If you are already out and it really starts to blow, go in. I can tell you from my experience that if you go out and he gets washed off the boat, or you do, or you both do and get separated from the boat, or he sails away without you, or he falls off while trying to hook in and get out, and you run his legs over with the rudder, or you stuff the bow and he fly's around the forstay and hits the lee bow head first (we did it all) it will be a long,long time before your wife let's you take him out again! And no amount of cake and ice cream on the way home will keep his mouth shut after you leave for work. She WILL find out. In light air you two will be great. In medium wind you should be be ok, but in heavy wind, see if you can swap him onto the committee boat with a camera, and you get an adult in exchange. My son loved driving one of the rescue boats at one regatta when I had to replace him due to high winds, he was able to help rescue a couple of boats and had great storys to tell, wich is a better outcome than thrashing him while crewing on the cat.
Blade F16 #777
| | | good preparation is better than hoping for luck!
[Re: Captain_Dave]
#58248 10/13/05 08:36 AM 10/13/05 08:36 AM |
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 185 Shanghai, China Dirk
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Posts: 185 Shanghai, China | after olympic tornado sailors and 49er sailor drowned by beeing caught, it really seems to be a topic to consider.
i have capsized many many times and surely also my trapeze hook got caught somewhere else. what always helped me is to keep calm in your mind. if you don't panic, you can analyze where you got stucked and in which direction you have to push or pull to free yourself. basically I believe I will always be able to free myself easily. but the tornado and 49er sailors might have thought the same. so basically it is good that those harnesses are reconsidered, although I believe the danger comes more from flying agains a daggerboard, hit the rigging etc...
but again, this is seldom and still a lot of people die just by crossing the street which might still be more dangerous than capsizing with a catamaran...
for your son, I would invest into the new magic marine trapeze harnesses (although it is very difficult to reattach it and children have the tendency to play with things parents say 'no'...)
secondly i would advise you to buy him a small emergency signal he can shoot easily in the air. 'nico' offers a four-shoot device which could also be handled by a responsible youngster. you should have one as well.
third advice regards only yourself: beeing a singlehanded sailor since several years and once lost contact to my boat on the eastsea swimming for half an hour before someone picked me up, the easiest solution is that you get one of those shackles winddragonflyer are using. such a shackle you attach to your trapeze trouwser and than you put your mainsheet which is connected to the travellersheet through it. you can also use a normal swiftshackle but the advantage of the one I mentioned is you can open it under load! beeing attached to the mainsheet will make it nearly impossible to loose contact to the boat!
and than don't worry to much! fear is always the best route to end up in trouble...
Dirk
A-Cat GER 5
F-16 CHN 1 (sold)
SC 6.5 CHN 808
| | | Re: good preparation is better than hoping for luck!
[Re: Dirk]
#58249 10/14/05 01:39 PM 10/14/05 01:39 PM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | Hmmmm.... a snap shackle on the harness for the mainsheet. That's not a bad idea....
Jay
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