It is official now.

Landenberger sailmaker now publically names the F16 class as part of its official product series. He now made some 30 sails designed and produced by him for the Stealth F16 and Taipans. Aaron Young was sailing with a landenberger suit of sails when he won the FX-one/F16 event in the UK and of course Dirk in Shanghai is the most known Taipan sailor with a landenberger sail. In Germany and Zwitserland more Taipans are sailing with landenberger sails.

Landenberger has a full price-list for his F16 sails, go to :

Link to Landenbergers OD product line webpage

Notice our logo ?

For the F16 price-list go to :

Price-list for Landenberger F16 sails (and other products like battens and snuffers)


That is 2500,- Euro's including European taxes for a full suit of sails (main+jib+spi) including battens. That is a good price for such a package when compared to the competition.


Here is Dirk with his Landenberger mainsail.




Here Bart and myself running with a full suit of Landenberger sails on a Stealth F16

Wouter,

I am shopping for sails and am looking at what comes stock with Vectorworks F16 and Ullman. After discussing with Charlie at Ullman he can produce me a "fast" proves set of Pentex.

What is the performance difference between Ullman and Landerberger?


Asim

I have no idea. I have never sailed with an Ullman suit of sail so I can't compare these two to oneanother. Sorry.

Wouter

Cool, Landy even offers a Maxx kevlar mainsail. Not so cool that it's more expensive than the radial-cut pentex..


What's up with the wrinkles showing in both sails above? Not enough batten tension?


Both Ullman in the US (which Ullman loft was it?) and Landeberger knows very well what they do. Just make sure the saildesigner you choose is familiar with your specific mast (superwing, Stealth carbon, or other) so he can design the best luff-curve.

What is the performance difference between Ullman and Landerberger?

Usually the nut pulling the strings!


What's up with the wrinkles showing in both sails above? Not enough batten tension?

I'd say probably not enough luff tension (or to much main)
although the battens in the cat rigged one appear to be almost "S" bending? which could indicate (among other things) that the battens on that one, at least, are not heavy enough?

I notice there's quite a difference in shape between those mains - the white main with more of a square top. Do you know which of these they're making as F16? Or are they offering a choice?

Paul

hi paul and others,

I approached landenberger about ten weeks ago.

landenberger made some taipan sails a few years ago which won the Nationals once with Darren Bundock and the next year with Andrew Williams.

landenberger has a high reputation in the A-class scene based on the close relation to Glenn Ashby wo worked for landenberger in the past.

he did not made any F16 sails for the taipan superwingmast before I approached him, but has a 4.9 standing at his loft and could take all measures again. the sail you see on the picture is basically a current A-class sail shape adapted to the lenght and characteristics of the aluminium superwing section. I asked for this extreme square top and I am really happy with it.

as designed for singlehanded sailing it's nicely flat but I also sailed it with a standard 4.9 jib doublehanded against a standard 4.9 with a new standard 4.9 ashby sail and even in light winds (where I expected a weakness) I seemed to be pointing higher with simular speed... but if doublehanded sailing is your main target, you should definitely ask for a fuller sail!
[color:"#666666"] [/color]
regarding maxx, there seems to be quite significant differences even inside 'maxx' sailclothes, so here is what andy landenberger wrote me when I asked simular questions like you...

[color:"#666666"] [/color] "We are using a special Kevlar which so far has only been produced for us. Unfortunately it is more than double the price of the standard Maxx pen or carbon. We started with the standard materials and found the sails not to be fast. We then changed the layup of the material and the fiber quality and made some big gains. The only downside is that the material is much more expensive, but the results are there and in Europe no one has complained about the price for the sail. Maxx pen is about the same price as standard Pen so we could produce it for the same price as a standard radial sail. But in that case I would suggest that the radial sail is faster."
[color:"black"] [/color]

ok, hope these informations help a little.
don't believe you make a bad choice with the ullman either.

the wrinkles in my pic are probably a combination of to less batten tension and to much mainsheettension while cunningham not yet pulled at all. looks strange but actually was fast

in the other picture I believe they sail with a full rotated mast and the narrow sheeted jib is putting pressure into the main from the wrong side. situation could be improved by less jib tension and less traveller for the main, maybe more mainsheettension and surely less rotation.

at least the taipan superwing section is a very strong profile and don't need to be 90° rotated just to protect the masttop from breaking... luckily its not an aluminium tornado mast... I use (surely class illegal but we have no F16 sailing here yet) F18 spinnaker, so I hoist the spi till about 50 cm below the masttop and that is a point you start to worry about your masttop and full supply from the main is really needed...

Who's making the stock sails for the Vectorworks boats?
CARY

Ullman Sails (Charley Ogletree)

This guy has got a rep in the Tornado class.

It was mentioned to me that the Ullman main and jib were layed over a several weeks old Ashby suit of sails and it compated favourably. The jib was identical in cut, the mainsail had the same luff curve and was very comparable in the other dimensions. The squaretops were within 50 mm of one-another and that is very close as today these squaretops are about 800 mm to 900 mm. The fact that the luff curves are as good as identical means that the sails are expected to have by far the same feel to them. Luff curve is very important overall. The leech starts out just a little longer on the foot (also 50 mm) and then moves up to the squaretop which is 50 mm less in length. This means the leech is rather similar as well. I have no info on the shape of the leech (straight, curved). But is was told to me that the sails look very similar in shape and how they sit on the boat. So there can't be large differences.

Of course some differences in the way panels and seams are cut and stitching can still exist, but luff curve is by far the most important influence in the behaviour of the sail. I have no data on the battens used so far, but again this is just small stuff.

With this info I expect the Ullman suit of mainsail and jib to be a rather good set as it is common knowlegde that Ashby is making some good jibs and mains for the superwing mast (Blade / Taipan). We'll know more later as it looks like two Blades (1 with Ashby suit and 1 with a Ullman suit) will meet eachother regulary on the water.

I hope this helps.

Wouter