if we could get some fleet building help from Hobie Cat, but I won't hold my breath.
We have given tremendous support to your events over the years. We provided boats and staff for many years if you recall. It is hard for us to do it all, all the time. Our dealers also support you heavily still. We give a lot of support to the Hobie Class Association which is where our focus is. The class association is the promoter of racing directly... not Hobie Cat. You can stop holding your breath I think.
Don't forget the Fast and Fun program too. We got boats to many locations all over the country through that program.
Rick, you want to pick out a relative statement in my comments about how much racing is going on in Waves... OK, you are right. There is racing going on.
The best way to repair the Wave is via brazing or welding.
As I said before, cross-linked polyethylene is a bit different that linear poly that a kayak is made of. You may be able to get a little bonding, but the chemical properties are different. "Cross-linking" is a chemical process that happens during the building process. While cooking in the mold. I am told that once the material has fully "cross-linked" it is done. If the boat is under cooked, you may be able to get a slight weld bond, but the standard answer is no. You can not weld cross linked polyethylene. Now, mechanical bond maybe. Just not the kind of structural weld you would need or one that is possible on a kayak.
Plexus? Good stuff, but doesn't work well on the cross linked type of material either. The thermal plastics they use it on are normally thermoformed rather than roto molded. Different plastic.
The Wave is probably second to the Tiger as the most active Hobie.
...and the Tiger is second to the 16, there is also active racing in many different Hobie models in different areas of the country, North America and World. Depends where you live as to which is most active.
I am certainly glad to hear that the Wave has such good supporters out there!
Matt is right about cross-linked polyethylene. Their rotomolding process uses the cross-linked PE, and the entire hull becomes one single molecule because the chemical agent added to the raw material PE causes each of the individual molecules to cross-link to adjascent molecules. Many of the kayaks are blow molded using Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene (UHMWPE). This process does not become cross-linked to form a single molecule. A blow molded kayak could be ground up and fed into a blow molding machine to produce another kayak. The Wave hull could not be ground up and rotomolded into a new hull.
Many automotive fuel tanks are blow molded UHMWPE, and even those specify that damaged fuel tanks are to be replaced, not repaired. From a manufacturer's perspective, I think you can understand this attitude. From Hobie's perspective, they would want any factory approved repair to have the same characteristics as the as-molded product.
BTW, olefins (PE and Polypropylene) are very difficult to bond to. Most times, treatment of the olefin surface prior to bonding is required. I have used specialized adhesives to hold things to fuel tanks until they are assembled to the vehicle and trapped in place, but these adhesives are relatively expensive and are not used for life of the vehicle attachment to the fuel tank. The most common attachment method is a technique called Hot Plate Welding, where the fuel tank and the part to be attached are heated to melting and then pressed to each other. This method of attachment has proven reliable for blow molded products and is, in effect, the process Carl describes above (melting the materials together).
The term "thermoplastics" refers to polymers that can be heated and formed multiple times. Olefins (if not cross-linked) are one type of thermoplastic. The right adhesive for each type of thermoplastic is often quite different, and what works for most thermoplastics rarely works for olefins.
Les Gallagher
Re: Cross-linked PE vs. UHMWPE
[Re: sparky]
#60044 11/01/0501:57 PM11/01/0501:57 PM
I was talking about RV grey and black water tanks (read: poop) - not fuel...any repair that keeps me from having to deal with the inside of those is worthwhile.
The stickiest stuff for water I have seen is the polyethylene film tape with supersticky glue, the newer sail-repair tape. I got a big roll of some commercial stuff .010 and .020" (thats thousands of an inch, stupid measurement system) 5 years ago. It is unchanged, is excellent sail tape, and sticks to lots of stuff, does not curl (and does not leave nasty duct-tape-type residue). MAYBE it can be put over a mechanical patch (use 2 or 3 layers?) if so, it will keep water OUT. But...How do you get good tape onto the cleaned-up inside of a poop tank? Eeeww! BTW- NEVER put gasoline mixed with ethyl alcohol (gasahol) into a polyester resin/fiberglass tank (or parts), as the polyester plastic will dissolve. This problem is likely to come up again, as gasahol reappears in the USA after a long 20 years.
Dacarls: A-class USA 196, USA 21, H18, H16 "Nothing that's any good works by itself. You got to make the damn thing work"- Thomas Edison
What it sounds like is you can fill the crack with non-crosslinked PE to stop the water from entering, but you will not be able to bond this filler to the outer "shell" which is the crosslinked PE. If the sublayers are liner PE (which I think they are) you can bond this filler to them. The filler should be the same material so it will melt togeather the filler and the boat.
As Matt Miller alluded, you are getting into the realm of chemistry when trying to repair this type of material. The repairability of the hulls very much depends on the process and the material used. Not all polyethylene is the same. Even the same PE can be different depending on how it was molded.
Nick
Current Boat Looking for one
Previous Boats '84 H16 '82 H18 Magnum '74 Pearson 30 St. Louis, MO
The Wave is so low because they typically don't participate in HCA sanctioned events.
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Keep in mind, both of these boats in stock form are really slow by Cat standards. They can raced against Portsmouth Dinghies. The 14 and Wave are about the same speed as the dinghies until the wind get to 18-20
I take exception to this statement in regards to the 14. I've found it's a common misconception. (Just ask the guys sailing Sharks at the Canandaigua Multihull Open this year.)The H-14 is nearly as fast as a H-16 in all conditions. It will out-point a Tiger. It's faster sailing dead downwind than a lot of other non-spin boats who tack downwind. (Ask the 17's who sailed the same course in Rehoboth this year.)
The bottom line (the real bottom line) is that you can pick up a serviceable Hobie 14 with a trailer for less than a $1000 bucks.
Come on Ollie, Buy a 14 and come race the Nats next year. The original question was about what was best for CatRcr and his sons. He already has a H16 he can race with the 9 year old. Throw the 14 on top and drive to the fleet 32's regattas and the other son can sail against at least 5 other H14's. The boat costs less and is easy to fix. If he was near PIB then the Wave would make sense. Our fleet kids love to take the Korz's Wave out to go swimming and jumping off and then get on the 16's to race and trapeze.
The Wave is so low because they typically don't participate in HCA sanctioned events.
I misread that - had to edit this text....So that means that the HCA numbers really don't paint much of a picture about Wave racing. I can say that I've particpated in a couple of Wave events (outside of HCA) and had a full on blast. It really is a unique racing experience - and well worth it.
BTW...I was sailing one of the H17s at Rehoboth on the same course as the H14s. The little bastards are surprisingly fast in a blow. I also sailed my first Wave regatta this summer and that was a blast.
That one that's on eBay is an '84 - and probably light. Factory installed dolphin striker & adjustable rake rudder castings.
It'll probably go for about $2,000 since it's in la la land. Everything's more expensive in CA and NV.
I bought my first 14 sixteen months ago for $800 bucks - including the trailer. It was perfectly usable when I bought it. Sold it a year later after fixing it up for $850 - w/o the trailer. (To pbisesi). Bought another one last March for $1000 - including the trailer. A really light '85 that if I had been able to keep the mast up, would have had a good chance of winning the North Americans. You can't beat a 14 for value.
Both are nice boats, but in my view boat for boat the H14 wins hands down. For one thing the H14 is a lighter boat (isn’t the wave only 12ft?)for another it's repairable. The plastic hulls are more impact resistant for sure but they aren’t repairable and heavy. Spare parts are easy to find for both.
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I have raced a H16 for the last 6 years with my 12 year old son. Now, my 9 year old wants his turn! I can't decide between a used Hobie Wave or H14 for the 12 year old. Owner of the Wave states that there is a small crack above the rudder gudgeon, but that no water leaks while sailing. Can this be repaired? Hobie 14 is ~20 years old. Obviously, each boat has its advantages/disadvantages. I am curious for opinions on which boat would be better for my son. I am assuming that this is a stepping stone to a larger boat around the age of 16 (either a 16, or tiger).
Thanks, Scott D.
"House prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years. Although speculative activity has increased in some areas, at a national level these price increases largely reflect strong economic fundamentals." – Ben Bernanke – 2005
Re: Hobie Wave or Hobie 14?
[Re: Buccaneer]
#60058 11/02/0508:52 AM11/02/0508:52 AM
I am selling one of my 14's. It is the cat sailor classifieds. It’s a 1984 new Hobie main, EPO, mesh tramp and upgraded main block system. Asking $1250. I would also help in the delivery. H14 picture
) at the start of the second race at CMOR this year? 
