Yes it has, On Brighton beach there is always surf when there is wind. Because the Bouyancy is concentrated at the corners it is very stable and so very difficult to pitchpoll, I would like to say impossible but nothings impossible. We have a pebble beach and a big surf so when you beach it you usually have to do so at speed, We have had many heavy landings onto rocks and no problems with that either.



I beleive it does live up to its claims, our hulls are stiff, light at 10kg each, and impact resistant. It is quite difficult to quantify how impact resisant, I have dropped lead weights onto test pieces of Marine Ply and Twintex, and 9mm thick ply will break before 2mm thick twintex. The Dart 16 test report said they dropped a hull from 3ft and it didn't break, so I have dropped one of mine from 6 ft onto concrete over and over with no damage.

If you don't like off white or black then you have to paint it or gelcoat it. I would say that it is no good for home build as it needs a vacuum and an oven to get it to 200 centigrade. However I have seen some feindishly clever homebuilders!

Cheers
Gareth

So - I'm a PIGEON now...
Alright - ENOUGH
The hull material seems to be great, but what does anyone think of the hull length. Will there be enough buoyancy for 2 adults. The main reason that I rated the Dart 16 "better" is that there is very good buoyancy in the hulls. This Twin Cat is only 15ft. Now I'm in trouble with all the D15, P15 H14 guys

As a Hobie-16 owner (and as a person with a bald, hairless head), its OK to toss the occational friendly 'insult' at us, as long as you are generally a kind person. A little humorful banter is fun. And Hobies are an easy target.

Most folks understand how to give a friendly ribbing. But there are always a few "socially-challenged" individuals, whose attempts at humor lack much skill. A gentle public reminder for rare mistakes, and a private e-mail to repeat offenders should work in most cases. I don't think we need to consider the gallows, but the peasants-with-pitchforks crowd might consider this entertaining.

I remember following a H-16 all the way from Miami to Key Largo one year when it was blowin' stink and could never pass the SOB and I was on an H-20. The H-16 was in it's element and hung on to win.

I still wouldn't buy one.

"There is a lot of elitist, high-tech snobbery on this open forum, and it discourages a lot of sailors from participating in the discussion because they are afraid their boat is going to be bashed."

I suspect I am guilty of old fashioned low tech snobbery

The thread a few months back about how fast a beach cat can sail left me cold! 20knots, 22knots who cares! Not me, I'm very content with the boat I have.

Gareth,
Any idea what the Twincat weighs?

Do you have to rotomold the twinex, or can you vacuum mold it?

Is your boat vacuum molded? If so how do you get the halves to bond?

And you need to get it to 200 C to do what with it? Vacuum mold it? Does it become softer at a lower temp? Could you form sheets into a half hull at a lower temp?

Thanks


Bill

Sorry, I have no Idea what the Twincat weighs but I would be very interested to find out.

Twintex is Vacuum molded, The hulls are one piece i.e there is no joining of the two halves required.

Twintex is a prepreg material, you lay it up dry in the two halves of the mold, join the two halves and apply vaccuum and pressure. Then when you take the two halves apart you have a finished one piece hull. It needs to get to 200c to fully process. Twintex looks like a bulky cloth before it is processed.

All the best

Gareth

"There is a lot of elitist, high-tech snobbery on this open forum, and it discourages a lot of sailors from participating in the discussion because they are afraid their boat is going to be bashed."

Yeah! That's me and my Wave -- high tech snobbery at its best.
Rick

Sweet boat

Never heard of a dart 16

There seems to be a demand for discussing and comparing the latest and greatest in boat technology. Maybe there is a need for a NEW catagory on the forum ??? There the fat-wallet crowd could blather to their heart's content! Us Hobie-16 folks could lurk there, and stay up to date; (or even post a comment at our own risk).

Bah, deep wallets my ....


This has gone far enough. I am into the technical side of this sport, but I read "non hi-tech" (are there anything low-tech about any cat's operation?) threads as well. There is always something to learn.

Of course the latest and hottest are discussed, that's just natural and there is nothing wrong with that.
If there is anything you want to discuss, make a new thread. Both the Dart 18 and the H-16 are good topics. E.g. I can see on pictures that you are sailing with just one rudder again in certain conditions. Great topic, discussed a lot earlier, but still not finished, obviously.


Jeff, I find your post derogatory with a certain touch of arrogance. Far more so than the unfortunate choice of words posted earlier.

As for my deep wallets. I would like to quote some lines from the french watchman in Monty Python and the Holy Grail for you, but that would be insulting. Suffice to say that if we want anything new on our Tornado, we build it ourself becouse everything are just to expensive.

Instead of calling for ostracism here on the open forum, why dont you consider the amount of posts on the Hobie 16 forum and the implications.

There are room for everybody on the open forum, so go ahead and use it. But please save the whining.

No deep pockets here either. I save every coin I can find in order to make small upgrades to my sailing side of life. Sailing is a crime of opportunity when you are married, 4 kids, blue collar job, future uncertain, hurricanes on the horizon. It is almost like I am stealing from my family to buy a new jib.
I have slowly graduated from a H-18 to H-21 to H-20 and to ARC21 and I must say each boat gave me more pleasure than the previous.
I am still impressed by F-18.

Hi-Tech or not... we all get pleasure in sailing our cats.

I've been sailing a HC16 for about 15 years, last year I sailed on a Nacra I17 as well as with a MattiaSport Esse Sport. Today I'm Sailing a MattiaSport 18HT...

We need to adjust our boats to our sailing conditions. You do not need the same type of windsurf if you are riding Hawai or Tarifa sport than Geneva, Rimini or what else.

F18 are great boats in Northern see, Atlantic (at least for Europe) and any other places with wheater conditions can be strong. On the other hands, we do not all leaves close to that type of places and need to have fun at home too...

We have room enough to enlarge CatSailing... and bring many other people to our sport. Too many people think that sailing (what ever type of boat) is for exclusively for rich people... so a lot of homework to do.

Regards,
Jr

Just one comment about Mystere catamaran.

Please note that Mystere Catamaran are Canadian Cats... while 2Win cats are french Catamaran.

A little of "French history" (if I'm mistaken, please let me know).

- Mystere boats are produced in Canada
- The former French Mystere Catamaran became "Multypass" by the join-venture of French Mystere dealer and Boutemy Dinghy.
- Since this year, Multypass changed name to 2Win.

Mystere is still a cat builder but has nothing to do with 2win on the development of the new hull material. If I'm wrong let me know.

Regards,
Jr

Have to agree with Rolf, the "high-tech snobbery" associated with deep wallets is a myth - in many cases you can build your own boat in far superior technology for a much lower cost, provided that your class rules allow you to, which is why I chose the class I sail. My other choice would be to pay much more for a factory-built class which doesn`t allow you to buy fittings elsewhere other than the factory. I would have no issue with that provided the factory price for fittings was reasonable. As things stand you pay over-inflated factory prices for equipment that is inferior to that which you could buy at any boat shop. That`s when I draw the line and choose a class that allows flexibility as to who I buy my sails, blocks and fittings from. (and even hulls, boards, rudders, beams and mast in my case.)
Oh yes, and my high-tech boat is made of wood, as are my daggerboards. My rudders are factory-made, but from the factory of my choice .
My sails (main, jib, spinnaker AND trampoline) cost less than a set of dacron main and jib for the most popular factory boat.
One day you too may see the light.

Jeff,

You'd be a lot 'lighter' and happier if you took that chip off your shoulder!

There's no "fat wallet brigade" here - just enthusiasts for this sport of ours that want to discuss the implications and pros/cons of new technology or changes in the way our sport is organised. I've seen no evidence of contributors to this forum having an excess of the folding stuff.

I also fail to understand why H16 sailors seem to have this expectation that they are going to be 'dissed'. Surely It's all a frame of mind?

Gareth, Thanks for posting the latest, "high-tech" information. As an owner of 1970's design boats I find these forums and comments invaluable. I enjoy dreaming of a boat I may own in the future. That is...if you all will allow me to do so?

Jeff, Geez man, lighten up! If you dont like it, change the channel on your TV.

Maybe I'm the only one to notice, but it seems that this petty stuff always starts around this time of year.

My guess is frozen in sailors.

Rolf,

A little off topic, but the french watchman you speak of is a classic. At our house we quote almost every word from the movie. All I have to say is "spot on".

My wife's favorite "she turned me into a Newt!"

Peace,
Clayton