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Has a "shoe" keel ever been tried on beach cats? #62145
12/02/05 08:44 AM
12/02/05 08:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline OP
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We went for a demo sail once on a Witness catamaran (light cruiser-racer-type cat, that I think was 35 feet long). It had what the designer referred to as a shoe keel, instead of boards. It's like a rail along the bottom of the hull, and I think it was shaped like an upside down "T" in cross-section. The "rail" was only a few inches deep from top to bottom.

Rick and I were very dubious about whether the boat would be able to point with this "shoe." But we were amazed at how well it pointed, with what appeared to be little or no leeway.

Is anybody familiar with this concept?

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Has a "shoe" keel ever been tried on beach cat [Re: Mary] #62146
12/02/05 09:07 AM
12/02/05 09:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306
St. Louis, MO
hobienick Offline
enthusiast
hobienick  Offline
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St. Louis, MO
Many lake canoes have one. They help alot when you are paddling solo. They also add strength to the canoe hull.


Nick

Current Boat
Looking for one

Previous Boats
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
'74 Pearson 30
St. Louis, MO
Re: Has a "shoe" keel ever been tried on beach cats? [Re: Mary] #62147
12/02/05 10:20 AM
12/02/05 10:20 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 61
NC
calcheck Offline
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NC
Sounds like a great way to make a skeg type bottom to protect the hulls from beaching problems. After reading the thread about planing cats thought it sounds bad for the low wetted area that you are trying to accomplish with a cat.- It would offer a lot of lateral resistance to tacking though it seems since it would be longer than a daggerboard.

John R.

Re: Has a "shoe" keel ever been tried on beach cat [Re: calcheck] #62148
12/02/05 10:29 AM
12/02/05 10:29 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306
St. Louis, MO
hobienick Offline
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hobienick  Offline
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St. Louis, MO
Yeah, they are great for going straight. Makes life difficult when trying to turn. IF you can, go out in a canoe with the keel and in one without. There will be an obvious difference in handling between the two.


Nick

Current Boat
Looking for one

Previous Boats
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
'74 Pearson 30
St. Louis, MO
Re: Has a "shoe" keel ever been tried on beach cat [Re: hobienick] #62149
12/02/05 11:52 AM
12/02/05 11:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 890
Dunedin Causeway, FL
David Parker Offline
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David Parker  Offline
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Dunedin Causeway, FL
My Mystere 5.0 XL has this. It's only about 2-3 inches across. I can't be sure if it's the T skeg but my 5.0XL always pointed better than the similar non-T 5.0. I seem to point better with speed than other skeg designs I race against, especailly in a long pinching beat to weather. It does a great job protecting the skeg from beach wear since the T acts as a wide solid glass sled. I'll get a photo today.

Hobie 15 and Hobie pacific have them too. [Re: Mary] #62150
12/02/05 12:01 PM
12/02/05 12:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Makes the boat turn like a truck though.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Hobie 15 and Hobie pacific have them too. [Re: Wouter] #62151
12/02/05 12:18 PM
12/02/05 12:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
That Witness catamaran tacked on a dime.

Re: Hobie 15 and Hobie pacific have them too. [Re: Mary] #62152
12/02/05 12:45 PM
12/02/05 12:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
mmiller Offline
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mmiller  Offline
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California
The Hobie Getaway has a keel shape like that. Added "foot print" on the beach to help keep the keels from digging in as much.


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: Hobie 15 and Hobie pacific have them too. [Re: mmiller] #62153
12/02/05 01:49 PM
12/02/05 01:49 PM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
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West coast of Norway
Fixed low aspect ratio (LAR) keels, is the 'high tech' name for these I believe.

They do not create the same amount of lift as boards do, for the same drag ratio, so racers dont use them. Going to windward in waves, they are inferior to boards.

On cruising boats they sound like a good idea, as they are useful when beaching/dry out, protect rudders and propellers in the hull, are more substantial than boards, dont snap off if you hit something, or slice the daggerboard wells.

Re: Hobie 15 and Hobie pacific have them too. [Re: mmiller] #62154
12/02/05 02:58 PM
12/02/05 02:58 PM
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Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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Essex, UK
So does the European built Hobie Twixxy

Terrible name for a great little boat though!


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: Hobie 15 and Hobie pacific have them too. [Re: Jalani] #62155
12/02/05 04:10 PM
12/02/05 04:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
old hand
Dermot  Offline
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Dublin, Ireland
Quote
So does the European built Hobie Twixxy

Terrible name for a great little boat though!


And also, I think, the Teddy - a very heavy small H cat.
Where do they get the names


Dermot
Catapult 265
Re: Hobie 15 and Hobie pacific have them too. [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #62156
12/02/05 07:03 PM
12/02/05 07:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Quote
Fixed low aspect ratio (LAR) keels, is the 'high tech' name for these I believe.

I don't think it's the same thing. The one on the Witness only extended a few inches below the bottom of the hull and would not have done anything to protect rudders or outboard motors. It would be hard to think of the "shoe" as a keel of any kind.


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