Hi!

1)
has anyone pictures of the modifications needed at the forestay and the attachment point of the jib when adding a selftacking jib system to a standard taipan 4.9?

2)
has anyone ever re-used/recutted the standard 4.9 jib for this reason and can tell his experience?

3)
do you think it would be possible to build a very simple [and probably less ideal] jib traveller in form the Laser is having a traveller, so basically just ropes and blocks?

The target is to free the trampolin, not to gain performance, but to invest as little as possible. we have a couple of otherwise useless jibs here where we don't mind to recut them to have a try. we have to focus on 'do it yourself' as the import to China for any original systems from Australia etc. would be very expensive and a sailing gear shop where you just pass by and do your late christmas shopping with Harken and Ronstan stuff seems not to exist yet here...

Any comments from selfbuilders are heartly welcome!

Thanks!

Dirk

2: I have re-cut a Tornado classic (overlapping) jib by removing some area from the leech and luff. It is approximately the same as the Taipan4.9, but a bit larger. It was not a good jib afterwards. Removing area from just the luff or leech would be even worse. Re-cutting an overlapping jib to make it selftacking is not a good idea, period.

If you are into homebuilding, building a jib is not a large or difficult project. For a first time homebuildt jib, I would reccomend hand cutting and a cross-cut layout. It can be assembled on a domestic sewing machine. You will do better that way than with any re-cut of your overlapping jib.
If you can measure what luff length, foot and leech length you want on your new jib, I can send you a design for evaluation based on the jibs we have buildt for our Tornado.

I second Phills comments.

I've been down almost the exact same road (with minor differences) and have come to the same conclusions.

Indeed ...

-1- you want 1:4 purchase on the jib
-2- you want the blocks on the pole to be well fitted so that blocks can't realign themselfs and have the lines rub
-3- you want to have swivel cleats.

I also found that you don't want the swivel cleats (jib sheet) to be too far inwards towards the mast.

Wouter

This part of the conversion is very easy. I will try to dig up some photo;s for you later in the week. But rest assured this is not a problem not even for you in China. My setup costed me 10 bucks and used an alu tube from the local hardware story, an eyestrap, 2 pop rivets and some high tension dyneema line





I will think some about this. I believe better option are available then that.

Wouter

Hi guys,
thanks for your kind feedback.

meanwhile I also contacted prosailasia and they also mentioned as an alternative a nice simple idea: if cleaning up the trampoline is the basic priority, why not just moving the standard jibblocks to a rail or even fixed positions directly on the mainbeam and just invest into a new jib cut for this purpose...

I wait for their quotation but Rolf, your proposal sounds also very interesting, as there is a local boatsbuilder around who must be able to make those jibs if we can tell him how to cut them. If we will follow this way I will let you know the measurements!

Thank you!

Dirk

Dirk.

Just pop riveting two eyestraps onto the mainbeam and shackle your blocks to them (with a spring) will definately work. That was the way all Formula boats were setup up before the selftackers came along.

I would personally try to make a jib yourself (or have it made locally) with the instructions given to you by Rolf. That is if you can get the dacron cloth there in China. After having fiddles with my own jib now I can see that it is not a big step to make. Even if the jib is not prefect first time round then you can easily alter your luff curve manually to get a better shape. It is also easy to test any new luff curve. Just take a stapler and staple a new luff round on your jib. You'll actually be stampling the tunnel through which the forestay runs (closed zipper). Once you are happy with the jib after making a few tries then you can have the new curve sewn into the sock permanently.

All in all it is a pretty low cost-low risk operation. And the construction of the jib itself is not really that difficult. You can probably steal some of the luff curve design of the old jib. OR at least get a feel for what you are looking for.

Wouter

thanks wouter,

phill will also be so kind to send some photos for building the compression piece, if you find your images would still be helpful!

thanks again!

(if we find a way to produce cheap jibs in china (which also looks like jibs) i will let you know! ;-)

Hong Kong have several sailmakers. You can buy cloth, zippers, basting tape, thread, needles etc. there. Or you can import what you need from any foreign sailmaker or Sailrite in the USA (www.sailrite.com).
If all these fail, let me know and we can work something out.

The cheapest solution is to break out your sewing machine and cut your panels yourself. Just the experience is worth the effort, and the result _will_ look and set like a jib, no worries. Sailmaking is not rocket science (no matter what North and others say), but an art and a craft everybody with the inclination to can master.
If you want to go into mass production, that is a completely different matter.

Dirk/Wouter-
If they've got the "old" jibs laying around to rot- What about modifying ala a Hobie 16?? That is sew in some jib pockets, round out the leech (ala the 16 jib) and add a new clew plate to allow sheeting to blocks on the front beam? Could even add the tracks on the beam ala the H 16- Wouldn't be self-tacking but would clear up the tramp. I believe the Spitfire or Stealth has a battened self-tacking jib??
Just a cheap thought--

Kirt

Like I said earlier on, I have tried that. It will leave you with draft in the wrong position and open the leech. You will not point well and the jib will not power up the sailplan as it should.
Try drawing some chords with 10% depth and draft at ca 40% forward on a sheet, then cut off the aft end and you will see the difference in shape. Such a small alteration really changes the sails characteristica.

hi guys...

I am still searching for photos showing existing compression struts which could be used as a system to enable the standard taipan 4.9 with spinnaker pole to use a lower attached F16 jib...

I received some very helpful photos from phill brander (thanks again!) but still look for alternatives...

thank you!

have been veruy busy. just derusted my landyacht frame and painted it black.

I will look for my pics tonight, I promise.

Wouter

here are some pics of compression strut setups and self tacker set ups

top of strut

jib self tacker

jib self tacker 2

I thought I had some pics with the whole thing rigged (selftacking jib and all) but I can't seem to find them (or I was just imagining things)

My strut is actually really simple and it was dirt cheap. The boys rigged it during the DCC in a very short time as well. The pics are of a few weeks after that so the boat or the setup doesn't look really tidy, but I've cleaned it up since.

The strut setup itself is just :

-1- one 35 cm 20mm by 2mm alu tube as bought at the local hardward store for 2 euro's (remember my bridles are higher !)

-2- on the bottom the tube has been flattened by a vice to allow the eyestrap to sit inside the tube. On the top a slot has been cut that slides over the bridle strop plate.

-3- on the spi pole an eyestrap is blind riveted.

-4- In the bottom part of the strut a hole is drilled through which either a retaining pin or the pin of a shackle is put. This pin sit under the eyestrap that is inside the strut when the setup is assembled as so keeps the strut to the spi pole.

-6- two dyneema 3 mm 500 kg lines run from just forward of the eyestrap/strut to the bridle wires fittings on my hulls. These keep the spi pole at the strut very accurately in place and thus prevent the jib from developping a crease. It also stabilizes the spi pole and you can now use a smaller wall thickness or diameter pole = saves weight.

-7- Currently I still use a single 3mm dyneema 500 kg line between the spi pole and bridle plate to hold the spi pole up when the jib is not fitted, But that was because I have been too lazy to tidy that up as of yet. Mind you when the jib is fitted, then the jib luff will pull the whole setup upwards and this retaining line is not necessary at all. For a while now I've been thinking of either having this line run inside of the strut or drill holes in the top of the strut and bridle plate. I'm not sure what'll do.


This total setup costed me, maybe 5 or 6 euro's in total. I'm till using it and it works fine. Only thing I would alter if I would make it new again was filling the top of the slot with some plastic rod and screw that in place that. This will cut down on the slot wearing out (deeper) over time. It has not been a real problem yet but I can see it happening and putting more tension on the stabilizing lines than I want. It will also make drilling a hole in the bridle plate and screw the strut to the bridle plate from the rear easier and better. I don't want to use a retaining pin there as the spi sail will rub and probably rip on that.

















On the subject of selftacking rails and setups, do a search on this website. I think I placed pics and stories two times before on this forum.

Good luck Dirk.

Wouter

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