I'm not a spi sailor (although I hope to remedy that deficiency soon). I've read that most people nowadays feel that downwind under spi is the way to go even in higher winds. I always thought that the trickiest part of spi sailing in higher winds is setting the spi. So my question is: how do you do it? Do you just bear off close to DDW (while centering the traveller and sheeting the main) and hoist the spi letting the clew flap ahead (until the hoist is completed), then begin slowly sheeting in and heading up? Do you sheet in and head up together or do one before the other?
Thanks for the input,
Jerry

That's about it, if it's really tough sometimes easing the main out to create a wind shadow can be affective to make the spin hoisting easier. Bag launching the spinnaker from the trampoline can be pretty tricky in high winds...actually getting the spinnaker back down can be a little nerve wracking because the crew has to spend so much time in the middle of the trampoline and foward. However with the modern snuffer systems, dousing is really easy no matter what the wind condition. We've also learned that if you get pretty quick on the set that running deep during the set can actually hurt you because the spinnaker tends to fill leaving the crew grunting for the last few feet of halyard. If you stay on a higher course you let the clew flop and the crew has an easier time getting the spin to full hoist.

With the smaller kite on an F14, we just set and retrieve the spinnaker the same for all wind conditions, and that’s sailing single-handed. A smaller cat has that distinct advantage of being more manageable under a wider range of conditions due to its size.

Thanks Jake and Darryl.

Jake, many of your comments were directed spi with crew. I'm particularly interested in the best singlehanded spi hoisting techniqe for higher winds. I should have titled the post "Singlehanded spi launching in higher winds".

So if you're solo, how do you do things differently?

I had assumed that sailing lower before hoisting was beneficial for two reasons: 1) it allows you to center the traveller and sheet in the main in advance of the hoist to protect the mast, and 2) when you do sheet in the spi you would get less power from it initially on a lower course which would reduce the initial "wind shock" to some degree until you can "catch up" in speed to the wind speed. I would think that in bearing off you don't want to slow down, just have a less powerful spi when initially launched. So maybe it would work well to bear off and launch the spi quickly before you slow down too much and then head up again?

I do see the potential benefit of blanketing the spi with the main but wonder if you're jeopardizing the mast if you were to hoist/sheet the spi in high winds with it too far off center?

Jerry

if the main is still sheeted and the traveler is let out then it should still provide enough support.. correct???

Yes. If under spinnaker and substantially overpowered when trying to reach high, we often travel out to depower the boat. I'll travel out to the stopper if need be...but the main sheet stays tight tight tight.

In learning the spin, I have to keep reminding myself of that and I try to make sure I resist the urge to even hold onto the mainsheet!!! Maybe I can make myself feel better by hold onto the traveler

I'm sorry for so many posts here...but yes, trade having the mainsheet in your lap for the traveler line when rounding the mark. I have different colors on my main sheet and my traveler line to make sure that I don't mistake the two.

-yes, sail deep, but beware of an accidental jibe and never go dead downwind
-maintain speed; the faster you're going the easier it is to get the spin up and down, and you'll be travelling at a speed more similar to the waves
-set and forget both the main AND traveller (note other advice is from 2-up sailors; just set according to conditions) because you'll be waaay too busy with the tiller, spin halyard and spin sheet
-You'll need both hands to hoist the spin quickly (taking quick armfuls of halyard), so you won't be able to sheet in until it's all the way up; once the spin is up, immediately pull just enough sheet to stop any flogging; the boat will power up and naturally be pulled leeward and more downwind (spin will be way out front of the boat); then you can regrab the tiller and adjust your course as you simultaneously fine tune the spin sheeting [all this happens in a spit second and should occur automatically without any thinking on your part; if you have to think about it...in high winds...the daggerboards will be pointing skyward]
-If the sea state is gnarly, prepare to capsize; then you'll be trying to stay with the boat and get the spin snuffed before righting; oh, and if the spinnaker happens to wrap around the mast and diamond wires during the capsize, you'll have to swim out and untangle the mess.

My ability to manage the spinnaker singlehandedly in high winds is quite dependent on the sea state: 25 knots with 1-3 foot waves, no problem; 25 knots with 6+ footers, I'm in trouble; yes, I've taken some lumps trying.

Good luck when you get a spin, Jerry! The spin really supercharges the boat.

I've done a fair bit solo sailing with spi by now and this is how I do it.

I pretty much leave the mainsail in the poistion it was in while I was sailing upwind, maybe only lets its traveller out a little.

I then point down but not all the way to dead down wind, I maintain as much speed as I can (feel comfortable with) but at least enough to not be overtaken by waves etc.

Then I drop the tiller extension and while the boat is steering itself I move towards the spi halyard and put my knee on the spi sheet (allow some slack in it).

The boat will try to round up under its mainsail alone. At least mine does. However it does so in a gentle way, During this time I hoist the spi as fast as I can. I get it up in about 3 to 4 big pulls and the halyard line, in about 2 to 3 seconds it is fully up and cleated. My knee on the spi sheet prevents it from flapping about to much. Depending on the conditions I have the spi drawing already (with me knee on the sheet). The boat will now want to bear away as it will have a small amount of lee helm.

I then grap the spi sheet and move outwards and to the back of the boat while grabbing either the crossbar (mostly) or the tiller extension when I need to trapeze.

I really do prefer to stern with the crossbar unders spinaker. It give me more control and I can easily let go now and then to use two hand to pull the spi tight. I just have the tiller extension drag behind the boat then. Only when I trapeze am I using the tiller extension or in really light winds where I'll be sitting alot more forward on the boat.

In general I hike off the luff hull with my feet under the footbands and my butt overboard. Initially I prefer to sail deep before I get out to the trapeze. More control that way without losing to much speed at al; if any.

Hoist :

Well pretty much a reversal of the above. Start relatively high as the boat will want to bear away further. Pull the retrieval line as fast as you can and when the spis is halve away the boat will start rounding up. If you time this right then you can actually make a good mark-rounding with this. Sometimes I give some extra mainsail traveller to keep the luff hull down when I pass through a reach when rounding up. Sometimes I do this before I really do douce the spi.

I have a system that allows me to face forward while doucing and that I can use while sitting on the luff hull no matter on which tack I'm on. I can highly recommend this, I haven't seen any other boat with a comparable setup. Go to F16 forum and do a search their, drawings and pics are given. Whatever you do don't go for a mast fitted spi halyard cleat, that is a big pain in neck when solo sailing.

The rest is just doing it. You'll work out a methode you like quickly enough.

I pull a spi solo in any conditions and despite some near misses I haven't dropped it in yet, while singlehanding that is.

Wouter

Eric and Wouter, great input (as always) and much appreciated.

I have a much better understanding of what you're doing.
A couple of clarifications if you don't mind...

1) I've read that some people "sit" on the tiller when hoisting with two hands (I think they actually pin the tiller between their thigh and calf when kneeling on the tramp) so as to lock the helm into it's current course. Have you tried this and do you still prefer to autosteer with the tiller behind the boat?

2) When you do capsize, I'd appreciate understanding better how to douse a spi in the water. Obviously you're releasing the spi halyard and stuffing the spi into the snuffer, but as you said Eric, things like spi wraps happen. So, do you worry about getting the mast or bow to windward before you untangle and/or stow the spi? Any other problems or tips you've encountered while sorting out things that will make spi capsize recovery faster/easier?

3) Wouter, you mentioned you don't like mast mounted spi halyard cleats. I assume you prefer main beam mounted cleats? I think I've seen most boats with cam cleats without a line retainer fairlead on top. Looks like you'd have to go forward to cleat it all the time when the line pops out. Do you guys use fairleads on your cleats?

4) When sheeting the spi, Wouter you mentioned you sometimes let go of the crossbar or tiller to do that so you can sheet with both hands. With a mainsheet I'm accostomed to using the mainsheet cleat so I can keep sheeting in with one hand but even to do that (when I need to pull in lots of sheet) I need to hand off the slack in the cleated line to my tiller hand so I can grab the next armful of line. Under spi, even if you use a ratchet block, I don't think you can do that. Does anyone use cleats on their spi sheets? If not, other than letting go of the crossbar/tiller, how do you sheet in lots of spi sheet using only one hand?

Thanks guys!

Jerry

I've got an F16 also -
" " previous and :

My best advice is to set and douse FAST (each can be done in under 10 seconds). Doing so will : 1. reduce the time you'll give back to non -spin boats at mark roundings. 2. increase your gains on spin boats you're racing with clumsy, slow, kite work. 3. reduce chances of "bad stuff" happening during sets/douses.

I think in time, sets/douses from the wire will be the competitive standard in the F16 cat.(solo) racing as it looks to allow hot angles to be sailed for longer heading into a rounding.

PK

Hoisting the spi in higher winds should be done with released main sheet and the traveller should be all they way out. If you can't sail like that downwind without pitchpoling I stop using the spi! I hoist the spi and sheet in a bit to get the boat stable and then I center the main and tighten the mainsheet, get out in trapeze and sheet the spi.

Having the main in center and sheeted hard works fine until you lose speed, then the flow over the main gets reversed and depending on which side the leach flips you will capsize either to lee or the other way!

I've tried hoisting from the trapeze but you need to fix so many things on the boat during the hoist so it is faster to get in from trapeze and do it quick and then get out again.

I use the trapeze from winds from 8 knots and higher to maintain good speed and a stable boat. In really high winds I use a chicken line and trapeze with the rear foot at the end of the hull, and once you get all the lines sorted out feel really safe and can really go for it!

Check the link below for my experiences with single handed spi sailing with the A-class.

http://webbo/~sailing/spi/index.html

/hakan

"Hoisting in high winds should be done with released main sheet... "

Hakan , no concerns about losing the mast sans the backstay effect of a sheeted main ?

Regarding hoisting from the wire - how 'bout blowing the cunningham and rotation w/in a couple boat lengths of the windward mark , play the traveller out during the rounding and recenter just before setting from the opposite wire ?

Sorry!, wrong link in the earlier post. I used the internal adress for the server instead of the external adress, it should be:

http://www.webbo.dyndns.org/~sailing/spi/index.html

The sheeted main with traveller in the middle will cause you problems during the gybes to. I've done a lot of swimming during the gybes! If you mess around to long during the gybe you will lose speed and flow get's reversed and you either go for the traveller and dump it or you take a swim!

I just hoist the spi and get it pulling a bit with lose sheets, I don't sheet for full speed. I just sheet it enough to make the boat stable so I can center and sheet the main.

I prepare as much as possible from the trapeze before I get to the mark, release downhaul, release mast rotation and sometimes I fix the outhaul also.

After I jumped in from trapeze if raise the weather CB, dump the main and start to hoist.

/hakan

Hi all,

I have sailed single handed with spinnaker for 3 years or so, my boats have been set up to sail single handed only. I have not used kite with crew on off the beach cats yet.

I am glad Hakan replied before I did, because I was starting to think I was on my own. I drop main and traveller before hoisting in strong winds and pull back in only when spin sheet is partly trimmed to stop it flapping. My sheets are not long enough to let it flag out in front. It has caused no problem with my mast, I think these worries are over stated? When winds are high it is very unstable to keep main pinned right in , no problem when kite is flying but as Hakan said a problem when pulling kite up, I also drop traveller and sheet when dousing, otherwise as you slow down and round up main starts working and over you go. Gybes are still a un resolved problem in high winds, currently I am trying to keep main in tight and gybe then correct back as soon as main flips over. It seems that main carries apparent as you bear away in gybe so you are actualy past dead downwind before main flips, which means if you gybe as usual you will be to high on new gybe and main pinned in tight will tip you over.

I tuck tiller ext. between back of my legs as I kneel on tramp, by rocking back and forth it is amazing how much you can steer. I never have no control of tiller whilst dousing or raising.

When capsized with kite I still concentrate on getting rig and bow upwind before pulling kite into snuffer. I did at one stage think kite more important but mast can still go down and cause bigger problems. I tip over on average every second weekend of sailing. I don't worry about this, as if you don't push your limits you don't know where they are. I must admit, I probably tip more outside of races than in them though, I do try to sail more conservativly in the races, but sometimes capsizes still happen.

My spin cleat is located on a plate at side of centre tramp mounted mainsheet cleat. This has a guide ahead of cleat and pulley behind, which causes it to automaticaly cleat as it is raised and come out of cleat as soon as it is lifted to pull kite down, never need to go forward.

Definatly no cleats on spinnaker. When neccesary to use both hands to pull kite in, I tuck tiller under my back arm so I can use two hands. I don't think I do this alot though, I will have to check this weekend how I pull it in most of the time.

Regards Gary.

Yes, when it's very windy I find you need to do an "S" curve when gybing so that as the main goes off onto the new gybe you then need to head back down wind (on the new gybe) to keep the wind out of it until you are ready to power up again.

I've found than having the traveller out makes this worse as you need to change direction more to initiate the gybe (as you are still holding the kite sheet and so don't have a spare hand to throw the boom over to help you); Also, as the boom can then travel more distance across the boat it gains more momentum and so makes the whole thing worse again.

Somewhere on here I've posted my hi-wind gybiing technique and I will always re-centre the traveller before initiating the gybe.

My tuppence.

Are you serious ? Makes my boat slow down immediately and even makes it luff more quickly during the hoist. In my opinion all bad.





I've have personally never encountered this problem. Maybe I'm good at keeping speed up during the hoist, I don't know. I have just never experienced such instability.




When singlehanding I never have the mainsail completely centred. The Taipan boat doesn't like that. It is always a little off centre even when going upwind. In big wind I do keep my mainsheet relatively tight, but I do let out a little traveller, but certainly not all the way. Pretty much I let it to the position I think I need when sailing under the spi in the conditions I have at the moment.

Interesting though, I always assumed that there are more ways in doing this.

Wouter

Gary wrote :




Scooby wrote :





In reply I'll write :

Guys, I've actually got a quite simply (if not crude) technique when flying a spinnaker solo. My theory is that the spi is providing 80 % or more of the drive anyway. The main is just there to act as a trim tab and to provide the final 15 % of drive that you'll need to win the race. This means that during hoists, sets and gybes I pretty much try to sail as if the boat only has a spinnaker. The spinnaker gets my first and whole attention during these manouvres, When the spi is over than I power it up immediately and accellerate away under that. The main will fall in line on its own later. I always keep the spi driving. While I bear down to initiate the gybe I continue to keep the spi driving. At this particular instant that means that I DON'T sheet out and DON'T let if flap. The spi will stall a bit and loose some drive but sheeting out will make the spi gybe very late in the turn. At a time the spi will try to invert (move to the other side) and I'm moving to the other side (or have just done that) while I pull the new sheet and give some resistant on the old sheet. The spi sail stays relatively tight and doesn't flap much at all (if it does flap). I then pull on the new sheet and set myself properly on the windward hull (or trapeze). By this time I'm still sailing relatively low and the spi is still a bit overtrimmed and not at its full drive. When I'm ready, I go looking for power (drive) by either heading up or letting out some spi sheet (or both simultaniously). I try to learn myself to automatically come out of the gybe (and stay there till I'm ready to power-up) a little below the optimal (power) heading. Depending on the conditions I head up, speed up, bear down and not sheet in or out with the spi OR I sheet out, power up and adjust my heading. But I seem to make these decisions unconsiously, I don't know why.

So I often summarize this as :

-1- never flap the kite
-2- Kite is priority 1, 2 and 3 with all else coming next
-3- follow that kite where-ever IT wants to go, not where you want to go, You are only priority 4 !
-4- The faster you hoist, douce and gybe the better it goes.
-5- Maintain speed during a gybe.

Wouter

Scoob,

I also found that a mild mainsheet (=loose leech) is a real pain in the neck too. What happens during a gybe with a loose leech on my boat is this. The large squaretop twists off the lee forcing the boat to round up on the new course pretty high before flapping over. The boom and sail indeed gain alot of momentum if the traveller is far out but the sqauretop is the real kick in butt. Because with a mild leech tension, it crosses very late in the turn, so you feel underpowered, but when it does it immediately starts to draw (drive). This feels like somebody stepped on the gaz, you feel overpowered immediately and are scrambling to the luff hull that is quickly rising.

I think that Hakans way, a loose leech and traveller far out, works because the leech in now so loose that the squaretop is just weather vaning in the flow = no drive. My methode probably worlks because the squaretop (and whole mainsail) remain rather flat in profile and because the head flips to the other side early on in the gybe. You don't get that jump in drive. It more does like decrease proportionally and then increases proportionally again. It dips. This could well mean that everything in between is bad. So mild sheet tension and mild traveller setting are worse than everything tight or everything very loose.

I think I prefer tight in high winds as this way I don't loose time adjusting my sail settings and I can maintain my optimal upwind trim that I found on the first lap, this makes me pretty fast around the C mark. Also in strong winds I want a rather flat mainsail with a mild twist = pretty much the same as on upwind.

I would love to hear more about how you are doing it.

Wouter