John,


is it your homemade spi you use in the video? Looks very good! (but a bit small compared to the T )


If you have other such videos, please dont be shy, but post them!


An outsiders ignorant comment. If you could have let your boat sail itself, using some bungee or something, while hoisting, it would have been so much faster. Especially as you would have been able to stand up and use both hands and your whole body.

Nothing clever there Paul, just practice. I do make sure that the sheet is clear before a gybe though. Also the sheets are very free running and just the right length. As soon as I let go, the spin will fly out enough that as I gybe, the sheets at the clew clear the forestay but don't fly beyond the luff of the kite. Then when I sheet in on the new side there're no problems with the kite wrapping or the sheet fouling on the forestay.

re-reading that I sound so superior! - I don't mean to be though, I was just trying to explain it! - sorry.

Actually, I guess that what I'm trying to get over is that if you set the boat up right there's nothing difficult about a smooth gybe (or hoist or snuff).

Rolf, thanks for the comments. The spin is actually one that Dave Tugwell built and wanted some views on - I think he's very close to having it right. I don't know whether a bungee or somesuch system would have given me any significant gains, but I understand what you're driving at and I guess we're all always looking for 'tweaks' that might mean a bit of a gain. I'll have a think on it.

Wouter, thanks for your comments, and you're right of course - I did say it wasn't textbook!!!

Was this the event where the Stealths got smoked by the FX-One's? [/flamebait]
On my former cat (H17) I once didnt notice that the clip was unhooked and I did the scubadiver thing from the wing. Luckely I had a deathgrip on the mainsheet so the cat capsized, otherwise it would have been a very long swim.

When gybing with spi I pull the windward sheet in as much as possible and hold on to it when gybing, that way you automatically sheet in about 8-9 ft when moving across the tramp.

C'mon Eric, you've got to share at least one good story...

Jerry

Hi John,

Thanks for the info. Sounds like I should shorten my sheets a bit...

cheers,

Paul

Very nice video and not a bad gybe at all! You make the boat look good!!

Bob

I suppose I should say thankyou Bob, but the truth is the Stealth doesn't need anyone to make it look good - it IS good!

But, hey, thanks anyway!!

What rating system do u use and how does it compare to A-Cat and F18?
The reason for me not switching to F16 are the IMHO impossible texel-rating numbers.

F16-Uni=98
A-Cat=99
F16-Sloop=102
F18=102
FX-One=105 (Some clubs still use the old rating of 107).
( All TR numbers (PDF) )

From what I've seen a Blade or Stealth is not going to beat an a-cat or even an F18.
With a rating of 98 you would have beat the A's and F18s on elapsed time by quite a margin.

The stealth with its lower weight and foil rudders would be perfect here on the lake though,
assuming it works for steep short waves.

You're right Tony, the Stealth (or any F16) in uni config wouldn't be able to sail to 98. I thought that Texel rated F16 uni @ 99 and SCHRS has it at 0.98. Sloop is 102 (Texel) and 1.02 (SCHRS).

We have demonstrated time and again that the two versions are very even against each other and 1.02/102 is fair in most conditions against more established handicaps - but then that's the fault of the handicap system, not the boat!

From my own experience, you can get some good boat-on-boat racing against F18s, Hurricane SXs, Spitfires etc. in sloop mode. I just accept that I'd have to do something pretty spectacular to win in uni mode....

The low weight has been a revalation to me - I can now pull the boat back up the beach solo after racing!!! The foiled rudders are fantastic when it blows, they just give you so much confidence to push the boat hard downwind. The only penalty is that you have to be careful in shallows as the rudders won't kick-up of course.

Vid looked real sweet. I particularly liked the fact you kept the hull off the water at nearly all times...it was either very stable wind or you're very good! I have trouble with over-compensating on the Tornado when the hull lifts with the spinny up. I end up steering too far down, getting flat footed and having to head back up a lot to re-gain the speed/lift the hull. Having the crew on the wire settles it down some, but I'm not happy with my consistency yet.


One more point I noted...your main seemed quite open with lots of twist. Could not tell where the traveller was set, but I would have thought you'd want more sheet tension as you accelarated to gain even more speed. Comments?

Mike.

Mike, I had the problem of overcompensating on the heeling downwind too. You have to really go out of the "comfort zone" and start to head back up before the hull comes splashing down.

With spi sailing and heeling you have to find the rythm. It is just like music and dancing. The music may contain all kinds of different riffs and melodies but there is always a basic back en forth theme acting as a foundation. You synchronize your dancing movements to this foundation and not to the melodies that are laid on top. Keeping the boat level is the same way. You have to develop a feel for the basic swing in the guts and be on time with your steering actions. As soon as the gust is loosing strength, you already steer up again. Don't wait this the gust has passed all together, start heading back up when you sense it is about to swing back.

It is actually quite alot of fun learning to get with the groove under spi sailing.

Wouter

It also helps to try to feel the 'pressure' in the kite/boat. After a while, you just switch on the autopilot and keep the hull airborne. We did quite a few sessions with crew on leward hull just working on getting the feel for when to head up again. You need to have an agressive attitude (but dont yank on the tiller), and head up again a bit sooner than you are really comfortable with (as Maughan said).

Getting up to speed downwind is quite hard, as your crew probably must sheet out a tad as you fall off, and in again when you head up. You either must talk with each other continously, have spent some time on the boat together earlier or have a very attentive crew who watches the luff and telltales continously. I actually find it easier to go well downwind in a breeze when we can fly a hull, than in weaker winds. In weaker winds, we talk together a lot "heading up for speed", "falling off again" so the crew knows what I am doing and can trim the spi accordingly. That way I also get a second opinion on how much virtual wind we are drawing and how much further I can head down/up.


It looks like John had plenty of wind, so he did not need more power in the main to fly the hull, but not enough wind to break his mast. In those conditions, a twisted main is faster. If there had been less wind, I would have sheeted in a bit and moved down on the tramp to fly a hull. Also, if there had been more wind I would have sheeted in a lot more. As long as the main dont backwind, it's probably OK. If you get some decent breeze in Miami, you will probably see the guys with carbon sticks twist off their mains when they have enough power and want forwards motion on their downwind legs. You need to be a bit more careful with the alu mast, but many T skippers trims the main downwind with the alu mast as well (within limits!). What you want on downwind legs are forces sucking you forwards, but you can use the top of the mainsail as a trim-tab to lift your hull at the expense of added drag. This drag is compensated by decreasing your wet surface with 50% and gives about 25% less total drag. Hence it's faster in marginal conditions. In strong winds, the drag is not as bad as you have more virtual wind and you need to think about your masts integrity. The T probably also build a bit more virtual wind than the F-16's, so you need to lock out for backwinding.
At least, this is how I see it. If you trim the main for 50% aft streaming leech telltales downwind, you can't go much wrong as long as you drive the boat hot. I find it most difficult to know when to go hull flying and when to drive it flat. In weak winds, it's a constant evaluation for what will pay off, but only practice will give you that insight.

Mike,

As I commented earlier, we were sailing at Datchet in a VERY large (and deep) concrete bowl. In earlier races I sheeted the sail quite tight downwind as I would normally do, but found that as the wind swirled and sheered the boat seemed to 'die' at times. Easing the mainsheet slightly seemed to get the boat going again as did - rather strangely - sheeting the spinnaker in tighter. The boat just seemed happier with more mainsail twist than I would normally sail with on open water so that's what I did for the rest of the weekend

Like I said before, the vid is far from textbook

Wouter is right though, there is a definite rhythm to downwind sailing and it is much easier on open water where the rhythm of direction changes is more predictable. You need to overlay the wind direction changes with what the waves are doing so that downwind is a combination of surfing and optimum sail angle. Rudder movements need to be small and timely but as the wind/waves get up you can be more aggressive with the helm.

It's practice followed by practice and, oh yeah, practice!

I agree with comments above about struggling to sail to handicap single handed. It is one of the areas where the rating rule does fall down; I think the penalty of just removinmg 75kg from the calculation is just too much (in the case of sailing the Inter 17 1 vs 2 up.

Maybe the rule should be changed to use a single handed at 100KG (or something else that makes sence) and 2 up at 150KG (no change).

John, do you have the rating sheet for the F16 / stealth to have a play with. If the data on the water supports the 102(singlehanded)/102(2 up) handicap, it would be interesting to see how many KG you would need to add to get SCHRS to spit out 102/102.

The answer is : 20 kg's under SCHRS and 13 kg under Texel.

Wouter

There is some confusion with regard to rating handicaps.

When calculated right the ratings are :

SCHRS / ISAF

F16 2-up 1.01 (all winds)
F16 1-up 0.98 (all winds)

A-cat 0.97 (all winds)
F18 1.01 (all winds)



Texel system

F16 2-up (light winds)= 102 - (heavy winds) = 102
F16 1-up (light winds)= 99 - (heavy winds) = 104

A-cat (light winds)= 99 - (heavy winds) = 104
F18 (light winds)= 102 - (heavy winds) = 102


Some will remark that SCHRS/ISAF are still listing 1.02 for the 2-up F16 version. This is an error. I've tried contacting them several times to correct this mistake but I'm getting nowhere. The SCHRS committee is downright impossible to contact. But the truthful rating under SCHRS/ISAF for the 2-up version is definately 1.01 = equal to F18.

As many will know I've been involved in the Texel rating modifications among which the singlehanded boats modifications. I'm completely in agreement that the current SCHRS ratings (as well as the pre-2005 Texel ratings) were significantly off the mark concerning (all) singlehanders. That is with the possible exception of the Hobie 14. Both system are overestimating the singlehanders in speed and all singlehanders are suffering from this, that includes the A-cats, FX-ones, I-17's and such.

It is my experience that the A-cat can't sail to its rating (around the course) compared to the F18 neither. It appears that the A-cats are much better sailing of 102 (Texel) themselfs. That is on average !

It is certainly true that these singlehanders can be quite fast in light winds but they also loose their speed advantage quite quickly when the winds build. I think Texel has got an resonably good setup now, only problem is that Race committee have decided not to use the stronger wind ratings. Meaning that they are still using the light winds rating for winds in the range of 9 to 20 knots. This is not fair. If a RC only wants to use 1 series of handicap numbers then they should use the average value of the light winds and strong winds value. Otherwise the singlehanders get highly punished.

At my own club, the RC made a very good call (and I didn't even ask for it in any way); they took the two texel ratings and calculated the average value and they are using that one for all races.

This means that the F16 2-up versions remains at 102 and so to the F18's while the A-cat, F16 1-up go to (99+104)/2 = 102 average.

This is turning out to be a rather fair rating for the A-cats/F16's 1-up. Sure we have slight advantage in the light winds but we're also equally disadvantaged in the stronger stuff. In the middle (medium) winds the rating seems to be spot on. So "win some - loose some and in general conditions pretty equal" I think that is much more fair to the singlehanders.






You will find that the A-cat has alot of trouble sailing to 99 as well. And I also feel that the FX-one is not excempt from these troubles neither.

I don't think it is a F16 problem but much more a doublehander versus singlehander problem. That means that the trouble runs right through the middle of the F16 class. Of course, as stated alot of times by other, we are finding in the F16 class that 1-up and 2-up version are very comparable to one another over a wide range of conditions. This is underlining the effectiveness of the "averaged 102 rating" for the 1-up version. The data is continuing to come in and there is no doubt in my mind that the SCHRS system is just wrong and that the selective use of only the light winds Texel rating series is equally wrong.





I'm pretty much in disagreement to that. And I refer to many other sailors commenting that the F16's are indeed capable of beating the A's and F18's when the F16 crew is of comparable skill. We must not forget of course that there are pretty good teams sailing in the F18 class and A-cat class. We as F16 are not as lucky in that yet. But still, I've had more then my share of F18's trying to run me down before the finish line and fail, on elapsed time while sailing in either mode (2-up or 1-up).

But having said this; we may be arriving at a point were some people will believe that and others will not, no matter how much more info is presented. I for one am personally very happy to race A's and F18's off the 102 Texel handicap in either mode. I'm quite sure the A's will hand me my behind on the upwind leg and feel very comfortable when they reach A-mark well ahead of me, only to motor passed them on the downwind legs under spinnaker. In racing it is all about reaching the finish line first, not about who reaches the A-mark first. A distinction that some A-cats sailors have trouble with.

The rest of the game is all about sailings skills and the amount of practise hour you and your crew have put in.

Wouter

I usually release the downhaul and rotate the mast 90 and hoist the spi, but once in higher winds I tried to sail with the downhaul tight to get the top of the sail to twist a bit and it felt fine until I saw a picture of the mast bend!!!

I had the traveller in center and rather tight mainsheet but the mast was bending a lot to lee anyway!! Thank's to the "bendiness" of the carbon mast nothing happened, but it looked scary.

Nowadays I always release the downhaul in all winds before hoisting the spi.

On the A-class the main should be in center and rather tight mainsheet to keep the telltales happy, only when the wind is honking and the speedo is close to 20 knots does it pay off to let the traveller down a bit to get the telltales happy again. Note that I'm using trapeze from 8 knots of wind and up so I can keep the speed up, if you sit on the hull instead I guess you need to let the main traveller out earlier since the apparent wind is further aft.

You gain 30% in total righting torque on the A-class by using the tapeze compared to the "hull sitting" and you can get your weight 1-2 feet further back. This is based on 80 kg weight of the boat and a skipper weight of 75 kg.

/hakan

Another thought about the rythm of flying a hull with the spinnaker and keeping it up:

As well as heading up before the hull starts to drop back down again, if there is a really big puff then you can momentarily dump a foot of traveller to spill the main while you are steering down, then get the traveller right back in again. This avoids having to steer down as much which then can lead to the hull splashing down or excessive steering movement. I wouldn't recommend doing this continuously - just in the combination of big puffs and particular wave positions where it will smooth the course.

Another thing to play with is the how far down to run the leeward dagger board. On smooth water with consistent wind we think you can run it a little deeper to pop a hull just a little earlier. In waves or puffy conditions this seems to make the boat trip and lift a hull rather than squirt forward in the puffs.

Running the windward board deep just always seems to make the boat trippy and harder to sail smoothly.

In really big wind flying a hull doesn't seem to pay (at least on a Tiger). You get over two or three waves at warp speed before stuffing hard into the third or fourth one and giving the crew on the wire a hard time. We now stay on the tramp and keep it deeper with both hulls in the water most of the time, steering from the rudder cross bar for more speed/precision than using the hot stick.

Chris.