| Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !!
[Re: pkilkenny]
#64967 01/18/06 10:00 AM 01/18/06 10:00 AM |
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 _flatlander_
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 | the Cali. cat racing scene involves bongs ,bare feet and Bermuda shorts Dammit Paul don't blow it, that's exactly what I'm trying to sell to the tat laden, ex-skaters! "This scene is sooooo fresh, some rich dude in nocal is given' away a F16!!!"
John H16, H14
| | | Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !!
[Re: pkilkenny]
#64971 01/19/06 05:36 AM 01/19/06 05:36 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | There are atleast 10 Taipans in the USA (all F16's I think....)
It was more then that when I last counted them (late 2004). Somewhere between 15 and 20 currently I estimate. Spread out over the whole USA. All sailing with a spinnaker, except one. Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !!
[Re: pkilkenny]
#64972 01/19/06 01:21 PM 01/19/06 01:21 PM |
Joined: May 2002 Posts: 1,037 Central California ejpoulsen
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Posts: 1,037 Central California | Paul,
I have another commitment on 2/19, although I'm free to sail on 2/18 and 2/20; only a 3.5 hour drive to Long Beach for me. Any desire to try 2-up sailing?
The Ferrari doesn't have a trailer hitch, so it would be hard to get the boat down there with it; in fact, it's so darn low that a hitch would be dragging on the road anyway. Also, it's pretty hard to sleep in--you know, the normal YC parking lot accomodations.
Come down for a tuning session and we can spend some time on Millerton Lake tuning boats and some time in the surrounding foothills tearing up the pavement.
Speaking of ex-skaters and tats, me and the kids are currently up to our ears in sawdust building a first class halfpipe ramp for the backyard--I guess I'm not an ex-skater anymore. No plans for any tats, though. The F16 logo would make a pretty sweet one, though...right on the shoulder.
Eric Poulsen A-class USA 203 Ultimate 20 Central California
| | | Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !!
[Re: MozzieBite]
#64976 01/20/06 06:14 AM 01/20/06 06:14 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Hello Peter, Jesse Martin : Wasn't that something, I have the documentary of him and lionhard on video, great story about a "can-do" mentality. Haven't gone F16...yet. ... Still weighing the options, ... Mozzie with kite will whip a Taipan 4.9 without kite, but will be left behind if the Taipan hoists a kite. So I need to think carefully about which is the right way to go. Kite the Mozzie or get into a different F16. Like I said, my daughter loves Taipans...,
I'll admit that this is not an easy decision for an Aussie sailor ! The Mozzies are having the fleets and good event atmosphere but not the raw speed have you hammer the F18 class on elapsed time if your are a decent sailor. The Taipans having the performance (with some upgrades like the spi) but also the endless bickering and all out resistance to any changes to the design that will see the class dwindle to near extinction. Funny actually, the Taipan design came out of the mozzie design when it decided that not a single upgrade would be introduced in the mozzie. The Taipan class exploded, but now so many people have forgotten their own beginnings and want to do exactly the same as the class that "expelled" the Taipan in the first place. And they expect that this will prevent an F16 growth and prevent losing any sailors to the F16 class, just like the Taipan saw no growth after it left the mozzie class. It is strange dynamic. My personal opinion is that you should seriously consider the Taipan option if performance and hanging with the big boys in town (F18's, A's etc) when sailing with a spi is your game and you are not unwilling to make a few upgrades to the boat. If only sailing standard Taipan 4.9, then I think you are better of upgrading your Mozzie with a spi kit. Less cost and better all-round performance and enjoyment. Like so many others that have made the transition to kite. I never want to sail without a spi again. That thing is bloody addictive. You will not regret the upgrade on either boat. You will have to go through a learning curve of some time but after that you'll want to use it more and more. Good luck with whatever you decide. Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Okay let me clearify this
[Re: Phile]
#64978 01/20/06 10:23 AM 01/20/06 10:23 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Phill Edw. allow me to clearify my post : I never said that the mozzie class was doing better then the Taipan class (viable fleets etc). I just said that upgrading a mozzie with a spi is better then spending the same amount of money in upgrading to a One-design Taipan without a spi. This is a simple cost-effectiveness weighting. Phill, it is true that that several mosquito F16's are around and attending events just as much as it is true that you don't even see such numbers of Taipan sailors with a spi. We will not go into detail about why that is. From a spi perspective, while the Taipan design will take to a spi upgrade well, one will find more companions and understanding in the Mosquito group. In addition I would like to underline that I talked about the extinction of the Taipan One-design, not specifically of the short-term extinction of the Taipan sailing in Oz. As always I look at things from a World perspective, not from the perspective of any local area. I hate to bring it to you but on a world stage the One-design Taipan is a dead as they come. Of the 70 or so Taipans outside of Australia 90 % is flying a spinaker and 100 % have only F16 sailing as a viable option. Australia is the last straw the Taipan OD has, but sales are declining and sailors are moving out of the Taipan class to F18's and A-cats. How many Taipans were present at the last Taipan Worlds ? Now answer the same question with respect to F18's, A-cats or even Hobie 16's. Indeed I do see taipans sailing for a long time to come, Hell I love my own Taipan to bits, I just don't see the Taipan One Design setup going anywhere in the future or even maintaining its position as part of the AHPC product listing. A pessismitic view ? Yes, you can call it that. I'm just connecting the dots. Hell, last year we even had a well attended Hobie 17 championship ins Oz but that doesn't change the fact that that class is dying as well, without a hope of revival. It is a bit like a guy falling off a tall building and congratulating himself that he is still doing great at each level that he passes. And at those very moments he is, of course, absolutely right. Still ... The taipan had the second biggest entry of all cat classes after the A class (48 entries).
That is just nonsense. First the Taipan had 19 (1-up) + 22 (2-up) = 41 entries, not 43, and the Hobie 16 class, with their venue in far away in Western Australia (think rivoli bay) had more entries than the Taipan nationals as well. So at best Taipan is 3rd. And maybe, just maybe a few other classes will claim that their attendence beats your 22 (2-ups) as well as, think F18 although I hear 2005 attendence was down from 34 crews at 2004. But an argument can be had there. Wouter is also confusing healthy debate within the taipan class with "bickering", particularly when the majority viewpoint does not agree with Wouter's opinions freely given from afar.
Last discussion was a debate od sorts, all others were bickering where the OD sailors used all the tricks available to shut the discussion down. You know this, I know this. How many times have I not heard that I should shut up as I'm not an Australian sailor even though I'm a Taipan boat owner. Apparently the Taipan class is only there for Australian sailors. Your comment about " ... Wouter's opinions freely given from afar ..." is yet again right up this ally. Don't look at the content of his statements, ohh no, the fact that these are coming "from afar" is sufficient grounds to ignore them completely. Well, you guys did exactly that over the last view years and the Taipan One-design class outside of Australia is more dead now then the dinosaurs. I'm sorry, to be so reality based on this but that is the simple truth. By being close-minded and totally focussed on the Aussie scene the class pretty much garanteed that the Taipan OD had absolutely no chance of making it outside of Oz. This is going to break you up further down the road. Penny wise, pound foolish. Now I totally accept that others will have different opinions, that is to be expected and to be accepted. But I do invite everybody to look at the bigger picture and look at it from the builders/suppliers perspective. Look at economical viability. A class can be the best thing on earth since sliced bread, but when it single supplier drops out because it is not viable to them to sell the design anymore then the class is a dead man walking. Maybe the supplier is still selling enough of these boats (to only the Aussie market) this year (Not sure that it is), maybe even next year. But with the decline of cat sailing in Australia right and without a chance of reviving the sales (of the OD version) abroad it is, in my opinion, just a matter of time before the sales drop below the threshold. Maybe the introduction of a really competitive design is all that is needed to tip the scales. I don't know, but walking so close to the line any small hick-up can tip the scales. And that is what the Taipan 4.9 class did wrong. They never diversified their markets, thus building up sufficient demand and sales so that a domestic (Australian) hick-up will not trip the class altogether. That the class would always survive on other regions in the world. Currently the class can only survive on the Oz region and that will now never be different in the future. I call that a gamble. Some say that they will win the gamble. I say that it is more like a recurring gamble that you can't loose a single time. And there will always come a time, sooner or later, at which you will loose it. That in my book is the definition of "just a matter of time" Trust your daughter's love of the taipan. I had 8 great years racing with my son on one without a kite. Sure a kite is a challenge and maybe even addictive, but not essential to having fun and still being competitive. This is apparent when viewing the results of the top taipans against F18s and A class in mixed fleet racing.
But I will end on an up-beat. Taipan is an excellent boat and design, I agree with Phill Edw. on that. That spi is not essential but well worth the extra expense. Also this essay on the future of the Taipan One design setup is not directly linked to the question that spawned this tangent. So I will propose to move along and just let the future determine who was right to wrong. Best regards, Wouter
Last edited by Wouter; 01/20/06 10:33 AM.
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !!
[Re: pkilkenny]
#64980 02/07/06 01:01 AM 02/07/06 01:01 AM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,200 Vancouver, BC Tornado
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Posts: 1,200 Vancouver, BC | Phil,
Good to see you're planning on attending the ABYC Midwinters again. Wish you have better luck than last year! I'm scrounging for a spinny-monkey (again...when will it ever end?!?) for the Tboat. Just got back from the Miami Olympic Class Regatta & Tornado North Americans...so I've got lots of new tips/tactics to put to use.
Cheers! Mike Dobbs
Mike Dobbs Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
| | | Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !!
[Re: Tornado]
#64981 02/07/06 09:45 AM 02/07/06 09:45 AM | Anonymous
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Unregistered | I would be interested in heading out on an F16. There are three of us up here in Rochester that are considering home-building F16s. I personally am going to decide between an F16, a Hobie Tiger and a monohull. We will be all over California March 4th (San Diego) through March 12th (San Francisco).
Matt | | | Re: FREE Taipan F16 in California !!
[Re: Tornado]
#64982 02/07/06 01:35 PM 02/07/06 01:35 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 202 pkilkenny OP
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Posts: 202 | Phil,
Good to see you're planning on attending the ABYC Midwinters again. Wish you have better luck than last year! I'm scrounging for a spinny-monkey (again...when will it ever end?!?) for the Tboat. Just got back from the Miami Olympic Class Regatta & Tornado North Americans...so I've got lots of new tips/tactics to put to use.
Cheers! Mike Dobbs Mike , My hope is that yours is the only "Tornado" on the water this year !! See you at the ABYC bar fri. night or else crossing tacks on the beat to the finish on Sat. ( ha)... Phil (or Paul ) | | |
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