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Perfect Day, Bad Ending #65250
01/22/06 09:34 PM
01/22/06 09:34 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 77
GISCO Offline OP
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GISCO  Offline OP
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8o degrees and 10-12 knots of wind on Boca Ciega Bay. On the final beat back to the club out on the wire, I was about to cross in front of a power boat. The power boat sped up to cross in front of me and as just I was crossing his stern I saw he was towing a section of floating dock. His wake completly obliterated the tow and I tried to head up to stop. But it was too late and I crashed into the dock breaking off the port hull at the crossbar. Luckily ,I only damaged my elbow but did not break it. Skipper survived, boat totaled.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: GISCO] #65251
01/22/06 10:16 PM
01/22/06 10:16 PM

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Anonymous
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I would sue his butt off!! Hate a^** that don't care about sailboats

Doug
Hobie 17

Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: GISCO] #65252
01/22/06 10:18 PM
01/22/06 10:18 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Was he flying any kind of signal that indicated that he was encumbered?

I'm not a maritime lawyer, but I'm pretty sure you'd have a case for at least damages on your hands.

There's a good reason we call them stinkpots.

Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: GISCO] #65253
01/23/06 12:02 AM
01/23/06 12:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 395
LA
Acat230 Offline
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Acat230  Offline
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LA
Hope you got a report and I hope the idiot had insurance!

Pretty basic, you had right of way. Well, maybe you can get a new XJ or A2!

Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: Acat230] #65254
01/23/06 12:38 AM
01/23/06 12:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 77
GISCO Offline OP
journeyman
GISCO  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 77
The tow was about a foot above the water and was essentialy invisable in the boats wake. The sheriff's department maritime police said there is no requirement to flag the tow. Also a tow is a right of way boat and a sailboat is a right of way boat so did not know in this situation which one would be burdened. I guess the insurance companies will have to fight it out.

Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: GISCO] #65255
01/23/06 03:18 AM
01/23/06 03:18 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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West coast of Norway
Quote
The tow was about a foot above the water and was essentialy invisable in the boats wake. The sheriff's department maritime police said there is no requirement to flag the tow. Also a tow is a right of way boat and a sailboat is a right of way boat so did not know in this situation which one would be burdened. I guess the insurance companies will have to fight it out.



International maritime law requires a signal, at least that was what they teached at maritime basic officer training 13 years ago. During night, he should have shown two white lights for a short tow, at daytime I think it is two black diamonds to signal the length of the tow.
If he speeded up to pass in front of you, he should also have given sounds signals when he realised you was in danger (5 short blasts I seem to remember).
Maritime law is very well organized, and cover most situations. Unless you have some local rules overriding international maritime law, it was not your fault, unless he flied the proper signals and gave sounds signals as you approached danger. I would have checked it out as you had substantial damage.

Sorry to hear about the damage to your boat, but good to hear that you was not injured worse!

Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: GISCO] #65256
01/23/06 07:24 AM
01/23/06 07:24 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 45
Commerce Twp, MI
tigerboy Offline
newbie
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 45
Commerce Twp, MI
Quote
The tow was about a foot above the water and was essentialy invisable in the boats wake. The sheriff's department maritime police said there is no requirement to flag the tow. Also a tow is a right of way boat and a sailboat is a right of way boat so did not know in this situation which one would be burdened. I guess the insurance companies will have to fight it out.


GISCO - You should consult the U.S. Coast Guard Collision Regulations (COLREGS) rule 24. The requirements are pretty clear for inland and international waters. Your sheriff's maritime department is wrong. Just Google USCG COLREGS. It's all there.


Tiger Sailor
Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: tigerboy] #65257
01/23/06 09:33 AM
01/23/06 09:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 351
Dallas, Texas
thom Offline
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thom  Offline
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Posts: 351
Dallas, Texas
Before you go getting lawyers you should consider how much your boat is worth$$, how long you want to deal with this frustration, and how much the lawyer is going to cost??? Just because you want to settle this issue does not mean the powerboat guy does. The longer he can drag this out the more likely you will give up due to frustration with the legal system. It simetimes can take 5 years to get to court only to find out the other side has new representation and require a continuance to become familar with the case...depending on whether the judge will or will not grant it.

thom

Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: tigerboy] #65258
01/23/06 10:05 AM
01/23/06 10:05 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
Regardless of "right of way" each boat is burdened to not hit the other, if you were going to clearly cross him and then he sped up, he basicaly ran into you with his tow. He could have just as easily slowed, let you go by, then continued.

Last edited by Timbo; 01/23/06 10:05 AM.

Blade F16
#777
Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: thom] #65259
01/23/06 11:12 AM
01/23/06 11:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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John Williams  Offline
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Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Gordie's got (had?) a brand new beautiful A-Class. This is a litigious society and there are frivolous lawsuits out there, but this isn't one.

Glad you weren't hurt, Gordie - hope the insurace works out quickly so you can get back on the water as the season heats up.

For those of you who don't know Gordie, he's the nicest, most even-tempered and helpful guy I know - a real stand-out in a sport crowded with nice guys.

Oh, and he made this:
[Linked Image]


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: John Williams] #65260
01/23/06 11:24 AM
01/23/06 11:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
Mike Hill Offline
old hand
Mike Hill  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
Gordo,

Man, I'm sorry to hear it. Good to hear there is no serious injuries.

Mike Hill


Mike Hill
N20 #1005
Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: Mike Hill] #65261
01/23/06 01:07 PM
01/23/06 01:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
H17cat Offline
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H17cat  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
Gordie, glad to hear you are OK. Boats can be replaced, sailors can not.

Additional credits for Gordon, He was the Founder and Developer for the US SAILING Fast and Fun program, while Chair of the US SAILING Multihull Council.

Caleb Tarleton

Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: H17cat] #65262
01/23/06 02:59 PM
01/23/06 02:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
old hand
Dan_Delave  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Gordon:

Hope you get it all worked out. Hope your injury will be okay. Even though small it can still be a pain. I am really sorry to hear about you having a problem. Waiting anxiously to hear that you are back on the water.

Later,
Dan

Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: Dan_Delave] #65263
01/23/06 03:17 PM
01/23/06 03:17 PM

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Anonymous
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Make them buy you a new A2.

SWEET justice!!!

That will be my next boat

Best of luck.

Doug Snell
Hobie 17

Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: GISCO] #65264
01/23/06 06:29 PM
01/23/06 06:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 33
Ventura, CA
jes58 Offline
newbie
jes58  Offline
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Posts: 33
Ventura, CA
I make it a point to give all motor boats a wide berth while sailing. I have had too many close calls in the past both on the open ocean and in the harbor. My theory for this is a.) Most people that are driving motor boats are oblivious to what is going on around them. b.) Most motor boaters are oblivious to the rules of the road. c.) Most motor boaters are oblivious as to what a sailboat has to do to avoid them. To them a motorboat is a car that floats – a “no brainer”. On the other hand, I have met some motor boaters that are very considerate to sailboats - they are mostly the skippers of committee boats.

Good luck, and let us know what the outcome is. I would like to see who has final jurisdiction on the “who is at fault” discussion.



Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: jes58] #65265
01/23/06 07:05 PM
01/23/06 07:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
I have fond memories of duking it out with Gordie trying to make A mark first. That laugh he has is contaigous. Hope the dispute is settled quickly and you're back on the water.

I also give plenty of room to powerboats, as few of them are aware of the rules of the road, and more importantly, the speed at which today's multihulls travel.

At Hiram's Haul a few years ago, I was almost bi-sected by the Coast Guard Auxilliary boat. We crash gybed after the 40+ powerboat turned into our predicted course and sped up, closing the gap to less than a boatlength at their cruising speed (close to 10 kts). Upon our notice, they responded "maintain course & speed".

At the distance they were when we crash gybed (with the spin up on one hull trapped out, nonetheless), I'm sure they were inspecting the washing instruction tag on our lifejackets.


Jay

Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: jes58] #65266
01/23/06 07:25 PM
01/23/06 07:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Chris9 Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
In contrast, I've had more close calls with sailors who are 1) under power with no rags flying, 2) under power with their main up(***), 3) driving race committee boats.

(***) This is the best of both worlds gets ROW from all the uninformed.

*Non-Short Story* (Regarding #1 Above)
There are two instances in the following ramblings that illustrate my lack off comfort about the monomorans. About a month ago I was out introducing a co-working to sailing and cat sailing. It was a perfect late afternoon for introducing someone to sailing, light wind, no waves, no other boats until later; it was a Wednesday afternoon. Just enough breeze downwind to fly the hull with that powerful RacerX womper, I was sitting to leeward and new guy was driving. A closet catamaraner was anchored on his mono and on our way by we had polite discussion and he offered us beer if we needed any. So being a responsible dual-hauler, we continued upwind set that checkered thing of beauty, and headed for his stern, never one to refuse a free beer. He saw us coming. Perhaps it was a little bit ambitious on my part to think we could grab two beers while wildthingin'. He completely misjudged our rate of advancement. He had good form. However, he clearly aimed for the tramp instead of the hot green. The beers had splash down about 10 feet behind us. We could call into question his coordination and his ability to execute. But I don't think that would be fair to him. He showed excellent reaction time and ability to immediately leap into the murky, pee-warm, jellyfish laden river and retrieve the beers. He also showed keenness in that he ordered his boat babe to retrieve two fresh beers, since the West River sodden beers would simple not do. While we put on a boat parking display, he couldn’t stop commenting on our earlier flyby and remarking about how greaaat our sails where. I told him where he could get a set for himself. So finally we back out little ship up, preceded to starboard tack and promptly snagged the seat cushions he had tethered off his stern. Of course this is easily remedied, but upon his insistence to unsnarl us he almost received a nasty gash from the tip of the rudder blade on its way to releasing the seat cushions.

The second instance that evening we were sailing back to the club, moving fairly well considering the breeze, on port tack right along the docks at Pirates Cove. A 35’-40’ boat, had finished the race, had her sails put away with the main covered and was under power heading for her slip at Pirates Cove. When the “Lurch” look-a-like standing at the mast made a big show of where they intended to head, I made a big sweeping jester with my right hand at the incredible display of modern canvas that was rapidly placing us on our collision course. Our bowsprit would impale their overweight thingy about 3 meters from their bow (Like the metric use?). Probably resulting in empting their head. Fester, standing at the wheel, decided to show his quick wit and offered “but we are doing 8 knots.” Of course my having not thin sliced the characters we were dealing with, I replied, “So are we and what does that have to do with it?” Amazingly, Gomez was sitting in the **** being confidently quite. Thing, on the other hand, sorry, popped up from below providing us with a NY style howdy. Fester, in a joyous, overly confident state from his seconds earlier obvious verbal victory, offered “but we are blah, blah tons, what does that weigh 300#s?” Still not having come to a reasonable mind, I replied “try 800# and this particular model has been known to disable a Kevlar hull.” I know I’m a little slow, and not to quick, I finally decided to pinch a little and easy a little and let them pass. After all, our inclusion into the sailing community as a whole is a fragile existence. Cousin It, having now appeared on the scene at their transom, and obviously having not looked straight up asked, “Is that an A-cat?” For if he had looked straight up, Cousin It would have been able to see the “n” instead of the “A”. My reply was simple, “This is no A-cat. If it were, we would already be at the bar. Hope to see you there!”

We did have nice discussion or two with some other monos that were racing, and they were even being considerate with regards to our intentions. We did avoid them while they were racing. Simple sailing threw their lee.


Chris Allen
Nacra 20 Gertie
www.wrcra.org
Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: ] #65267
01/23/06 08:14 PM
01/23/06 08:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 217
Palm Harbor, FL, USA
L
Lance Offline
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Lance  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 217
Palm Harbor, FL, USA
Quote
Make them buy you a new A2.

SWEET justice!!!

Doug Snell
Hobie 17


He already had a brand new Flyer from AHPC.
I'm glad your OK Gordon and I hope everything works out with your cat.


Lance
Taipan 5.7 USA 182
Palm Harbor, FL
Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: Lance] #65268
01/25/06 07:06 PM
01/25/06 07:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 77
GISCO Offline OP
journeyman
GISCO  Offline OP
journeyman

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 77
FYI The power boat has been cited.


Re: Perfect Day, Bad Ending [Re: GISCO] #65269
01/25/06 08:19 PM
01/25/06 08:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Sweet Lady Justice - she must be pregnant. She's a week late.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
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