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The Future Of Sail Design ? #66366
02/09/06 04:28 PM
02/09/06 04:28 PM
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pkilkenny Offline OP
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I've been given an opportunity to interview Jay and Pease Glaser of the brand new and Very Hot GLASER SAILS Loft in Huntington Beach , California. I've got a bunch of questions for the dual Olympic Medalists (ex: thoughts on materials , theory vs. practice in sail design, collaboration with top sailors in different classes , the future of catamaran sail design , .....).I'd like to represent your burning question as well. What are two questions you'd like to see addressed in the interview ?

Thank You ,

Paul Kilkenny
F16 USA #300


-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: pkilkenny] #66367
02/09/06 05:25 PM
02/09/06 05:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
1. Is there a difference in difficulty between designing a sail for a monohull and for a multihull?

2. When somebody asks you to build a sail for them, what questions do you ask? In other words, what information do you need to customize the sail for that particular buyer?

3. How many more new materials can you guys possibly keep coming up with?

Last edited by Mary; 02/09/06 05:29 PM.
Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: pkilkenny] #66368
02/09/06 05:38 PM
02/09/06 05:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200
Vancouver, BC
Tornado Offline
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I'd like to hear his thoughts on cat spinny shapes & materials. Will there be a future for Cuben fibre laminates in spinny's (Tornado has banned laminated from this sail).

Mike.


Mike Dobbs
Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: Tornado] #66369
02/09/06 06:32 PM
02/09/06 06:32 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Will there ever be snuffer system on A cats? I am looking for him to build me a sail when I get my Nacra A2.

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
Soon to be Nacra A2
www.tcdyc.com

Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: pkilkenny] #66370
02/09/06 07:52 PM
02/09/06 07:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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John Williams  Offline
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I'm interested in the new main sail designs in the Formula 18 Class - specifically the new sail cloth that is allowing a return to horizontal cuts which seem to be outperforming the radial cut sails in Europe.

Cool interview opportunity - right on.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: Mary] #66371
02/09/06 08:02 PM
02/09/06 08:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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you guys are good.


Jake Kohl
Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: Jake] #66372
02/09/06 08:18 PM
02/09/06 08:18 PM
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Bob_Curry Offline
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Bob_Curry  Offline
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John,

That new cloth has been under development since the early 2000s. A NW Florida loft (?) was at the heart of it with Contender Sailcloth.

Bob


"The election is over, the talking is done, Your party lost, my party won. So let us be friends, let arguments pass, I’ll hug my elephant, you kiss you’re a $$.”
Liberalism = A brain eating amoeba & a failed political ideology of the 20th century!
Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: Tornado] #66373
02/09/06 08:26 PM
02/09/06 08:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911
South Florida & the Keys
arbo06 Offline
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Do I remember reading that the Cuben Fiber shrinks over time? Or is that another exotic fabric....


Eric Arbogast
ARC 2101
Miami Yacht Club
Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: pkilkenny] #66374
02/09/06 09:36 PM
02/09/06 09:36 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
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whew

at first I thought this was a mean parody of HWSHBN's infamous thread on SA.

carry on...

Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: MauganN20] #66375
02/09/06 11:25 PM
02/09/06 11:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
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Same.... My first though was $hit duck FOSD


Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: MauganN20] #66376
02/10/06 04:06 AM
02/10/06 04:06 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Quote
at first I thought this was a mean parody of HWSHBN's infamous thread on SA


On that basis, I'd like to know how future sail designs will cope with the fourth dimension?


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: Jalani] #66377
02/10/06 04:12 AM
02/10/06 04:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
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Quote
Quote
at first I thought this was a mean parody of HWSHBN's infamous thread on SA


On that basis, I'd like to know how future sail designs will cope with the fourth dimension?


Due to the Horse Power on the back, sails will have to be cut flatter to deal with the increased apparent wind........

Well you asked

Sorry for the thread hijack..... Please carry on


Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #66378
02/10/06 04:21 AM
02/10/06 04:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
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Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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Yeah, sorry.


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: Tornado] #66379
02/10/06 04:25 AM
02/10/06 04:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
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Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Jalani  Offline
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I'd be interested in knowing more about thoughts on square top design and batten angles/stiffness.

Does going bigger with a more upright leech necessarily mean more speed? Does mast technology have to be developed further - before tops are bigger or after (or at the same time)?

Does a bigger square top need a stiffer topmast? etc..


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: Bob_Curry] #66380
02/10/06 08:09 AM
02/10/06 08:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
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Bob,

I'm a little surprised you're not sailing A cats. Care to comment?

Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: fin.] #66381
02/10/06 09:44 AM
02/10/06 09:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Quote
Will there ever be snuffer system on A cats? I am looking for him to build me a sail when I get my Nacra A2.


There already is;

Marstom sells his snail system, or you can just fit one of the current ones are.

As for sail questions

1, Does he see any way in which sail design can help in the lift to drag ratios?
2, Re: SPi design; does he see them getting flatter as we learn to sail with them, or will they become fuller as we continue to move to W/L courses?
3, Spi Cloths - what next ?


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
nevermind [Re: arbo06] #66382
02/10/06 01:47 PM
02/10/06 01:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline
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Not intending to hijack a subject, I deleted my somewhat unrelated remarks.

Last edited by hobiegary; 02/10/06 01:51 PM.

Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: pkilkenny] #66383
02/10/06 02:23 PM
02/10/06 02:23 PM
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Posts: 202
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pkilkenny Offline OP
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There is something unstable and duplicitous about responding to one's own thread question. That said.....:

Here are some observations Paul -

1. From the standpoint of pure consumerism few of us have the knowledge / experience to articulate (meaningfully) to our sailmaker precisely what we want our new sail to do ( no surprise here , reference the "How Is Lift Created" thread before attempting rebuttal ).
2. Even the sailors who win consistently in their class are ,( for the most part), "unconscious competents" who will confidently share equal volumes of excellent and totally wrong information about why they win.
3. The classes of cat. that are approaching the refind potential of their boat.( ex: Tornado , Acat), are those classes that have attracted the most theoretically sophisticated sailors with long histories of data driven adjustments via meaningful cross testing.The rest of us have been the recipiants of these developments.
4. The practical value of "theory" in sail design / evolution, is painfully subordinate to practical and on the water testing (again, reference the "How Lift Is Created" thread).In theory a square big head main should be slower than a 1/2 parabola big head. So, why are all the big head mains square (on the water testing i'll bet ) ?
5. Because we know so little about why sails are fast or slow, we're collectively losing mountains of practical data that could advance the art generally.

CODA :

when I ended my research (alot and i'm not that stupid) and sat down to order my mainsail I included my credit card number and one specific design parameter : " Make the sail fast to "A" mark"...

We should know more than we do...

PK


Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: pkilkenny] #66384
02/10/06 02:28 PM
02/10/06 02:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline
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US Western Continental Shelf
How did each of you learn how to make a sail?

Do you think that sail making will evolve to a point where we will be using sails that have built in ways of changing their shape, besides the rig controls that we now used to accomplish shape changes?

If a material would shrink when tensioned, sails could automatically flatten themselves to de-power themselves when they develop higher loads. Are there any sail clothes available or presently being developed that will shrink when tensioned?

Do you think that we might ever see a sail that almost exactly resembles the wing on a bird with all the feathers, tendons, and methods of changing shape? How soon?

Who should be the honorary person that we name the 4th corner of a square top sail after? Tack, Clew, Head, and ?? Same question for the fourth side, what to name it? Leach, Foot, Luff, and ?? What seems to be the industry standard name for the fourth corner at this time?

Do you predict any changes in battens? (The way we use them, the way they are built.)

Are there any new technologies in Kite Boarding or Windsurfing that we may eventually see in our cat sails?

Would you like me to stop asking questions?


Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
Re: The Future Of Sail Design ? [Re: pkilkenny] #66385
02/10/06 02:36 PM
02/10/06 02:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline
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hobiegary  Offline
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That was a very entertaining post, Paul.


Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
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