I seem to recall that the code breaker machine that was first used at Bletchly park, and that would soon lead to the electronic computers of the early years, was actually a Polish design. Alan Turing (UK) was the first to use electronic tubes as switches in the design, significantly improving its processing speed. The yanks took the technology with them statewise in the final stages of the war. The first real PC chipset, the 8086 and 8088 series, were actually spin-offs of the NASA moonlanding projects. And we all know how many ex-nazi's and other non-US trained engineers worked on that.

The Internet itself, or rather the hardware network structure that acts as infrastructure orginates with the US Defense ARPA network I beleive. A US build grid that was to be used by the defensive forces or guerilla's during an sovjet occupation. The software part of it, HTML etc, was actually thought up by European engineers at the CERN partical research institute in Zwisterland. The porno that made the net great in the beginning came from all sides.

Netscape/mosaic was/is US based. Cheap computers and parts that allow its rapid introduction into households came (and still come) from Asian nations. I'm using a flat screen monitor right now (Japanese patent), before I used a electron tube monitor (european patent, many of which are Philips patents = Dutch). The bloody thing uses electricity (European invention), halve of its used plastics are patented by DOW chemical, the other halve by various European and Asian companies like the Dutch DSM company. The Lithography machines used to make the chips are most likely made by ASML Lithography (Dutch company). I think they have 85 % of the world market in that area.

The English language I use for communication is a European invention. Language as general invention is an African invention. Written language is an Asia minor invention (mesoptemia). Who actually invented the Binairy number system. The general invention of numbers and its aritmatic is actually an Arabian invention. Mathematics, or rather its ald name "Algebra", is derived from the Arabic scholar Al-Jabr (present day Iraq). He was the first to write a text book on Algebraic concepts and started the whole field of present day Algebra (mathematics). Of course he used various sources of older mathematical discoveries. Many of them Greek, Arabic and Sanskrit (india) origin.

Yes, I would say that this was pretty much a global effort. But leave it to the Yanks to claim all the credit for it.

They also think that they invented the Applepie, pizza, TV and automobiel.

Wouter

I have been reading posts anonymously for a month or so. I am trying to learn. And I have learned a lot from the posts of all of you who know so much about things I know so little about. I have been impressed that sailors from all over the world could comment and offer help to each other. All of you have the same passion and interest. Please gentlemen, you are really disappointing me. You are not at all different. Nearly everyone in the states is of European decent. If you ask an American about his heritage they will say my family is Scottish, or Norwegian, or Irish. This is a silly thread that is below any of you. I have been hanging on your words for weeks. I have the utmost respect for you and your knowledge of this sport, no matter what country governs you. Enough of this.

Hi Sunny; Couldn't disagree with you more, this is the most entertaing thing I've done lately, 'couse I don't get out much!

However, this does seem to be upsetting a lot of people, so let's move the fray to more suitable ground. Remeber, poor ol' Matt just wanted to know how to join up with the monohull folks!

How 'bout it Wouter? I challenge you! Let's start a new thread and see who can come up with must satiric name!?

Sunny, don't worry, I don't have any personal nukes and I'm well out of range of Wouters' blunderbuss!

When did SRI move? Was DARPA founded in the UK?

DO NOT READ THIS POST UNTIL AFTER 22:00 hours local time and 6 drinks....it is for entertainment purposes only.



Sounds like the Dutch have relationship issues. Maybe Dr. Phil could help....wait, he is American, is that allowed?



Ouch. This statement will make the cartoon protests seem miniscule.



Thanks for the financing, it came in handy. Has that tab been cleared or did we default on it? By the way, why'd they leave? Sounds perfect to me.



Time would have told, gladly it was avoided. Most occupations you mentioned crumbled from within due to lack of oversight, lack of speedy communication, lack of speedy travel - which while not perfected were coming of age in the 1940's. It is an interesting philosophical question how long an occupation would have lasted in these more current times - assuming the Nazi's would have kept up their extrodinary economic development that they saw in the 1930's.



All TOUGH SOBs, in my book.



This response was a little personal and "is exactly why it is always so easy to sting them with such remarks".



Very elegant. I cannot remember the book I read that in, but I am still looking for the title.

All in all, a very concise look at how differently historical contributions can be viewed - dependent upon ones local surroundings.

We all have Al Gore and his wonderful internet to thank for making it all possible.

While you have your list of inventors out: who invented fiberglass, carbon fiber techniques and all the other cool sailing related inventions?

Guys:

ENOUGH!!!!!

Lets stop the war and remember
why we are all here

This is suppose to be about Catamarans and Sailing not useless babel

Bring on the Summer and the good Wind. Flying a hull and good racing.

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
Soon to be Nacra A2
www.tcdyc.com

Yeah, end it here. No more political BS.

Racing with the mono's is quite fun. I find it very interesting to see how the cat performs compared to other boats, especially ones that are exceptional pointers (thistle/etc). Not only does it give me the chance to a) see some other cool boats with skippers that are just as enthusiastic about their "yacht," but it b) allows them to see the way a cat behaves on the water. It is my chance to distinguish us from other boats, and to disspell any myths that cats may still retain. At any rate, sailing, be it on a mono, dinghy, or cat, is a plus. In these times when sailing seems to be declining, I'll take what I can! Arrrgghhh!

Matt,
I am curious -- at our club on Lake Erie we had permanent marks set out in a big circle so they basically covered all possible wind directions, and then the race committee boat set up in the middle of the circle and chose the course marks and set the starting line based upon the wind direction.

Is that what you have? If not, what exactly do you have in terms of permanent marks?

The modern catamaran was invented by Sir William Petty an englishman

Gareth

Nope. I just know when my comments are not wanted any further.

A skill that unfortunately, you have yet to master my socialist friend.

Maughan17/Wouter:

I'll be happy to joust with both you guys at "political science" (new thread).

Now that was funny

I always thought of him with respect to bigger ships, but I see he did the smaller and funner stuff too. I always thought of Herreshoff with Amaryllis being more in line with modern cats...


Cat Kicking Mono Butt in the 1870's

The modern catamaran was invented 3000 years ago by the Polynesians. Do the research. The hull tech isn't that different, only the materials have changed.

Suggest "We the Navigators" David Lewis

Also, see "Canoes of Oceania", Haddon & Hornell; or just go here: http://www.wharram.com/

Gosh, I had no idea about what the Polynesians did.

I'm always up for a good read, but who doesn't know the Polynesian side. No doubt the inspiration for what we sail these days. Familiar with Wharram and the like (although I have never owned or sailed one like you guys).

I was thinking modern in the sense of appearing in the midst of what everybody else thinks/thought is modern, or the crossover that more resembles what we sail today. For instance the attempt to build a catamaran warship by Sir William Petty or Herreshoff adding the gaff and sprit rig and taking on the yachts of the time in what sounds like modern beach cat fashion. Many years later we consider a sprit/pole to almost be a required part of modern cat design. True that depending on what you sail the difference may be less rather than more. Didn't mean to offend Polynesian sensibilities.

Where would one draw the line between modern and not? Would a 3000 year old Polynesian design be considered modern next to a Reynolds 33 or a maxi cat from the The Race? Or an A-Cat for that matter. Sure the concept and basic design are there, and people tend to learn from them by looking back (using lashings for hull to crossbeam connections as an example - Wharram, CLC MBuli, others). I'll go out on a limb and say there's more difference than simply building a Polynesian design from carbon fiber. Is a Wharram modern next to a Gunboat? Is the difference only materials? Interesting questions.

Anyway, I think the Amaryllis story is interesting on this thread if for no other reason than the original thread is about multis and monos racing together. I have always regarded that as the beginning of the modern multi/mono "feud", at least in the US.

You say:
who doesn't know the Polynesian side.
---based on remarks like the below, I don't think YOU do. Sorry if this offends your Eurocentric sensibilities...

You said: For instance the attempt to build a catamaran warship by Sir William Petty or Herreshoff adding the gaff and sprit rig and taking on the yachts of the time in what sounds like modern beach cat fashion. Many years later we consider a sprit/pole to almost be a required part of modern cat design.

----go here: http://www.pvs-hawaii.com/canoe/canoe_evolution.htm

---A crabclaw IS a sprit rig. Both the Polynesians AND the Arabs (catsail, JUST like the Sunfish rig-look at a felucca) were sailing upwind for thousands of years before the Europeans happened to stumble upon it.

The basic, long, narrow, V-hull design is pretty old. In fact, neither Amaryllis (flat bottomed) nor Petty's design is as 'modern' as the Polynesian cats. They used the shipbuilding techniques that we now consider 'old' (frame-and-plank) whereat the actually OLD Polynesian techniques are more like what's being done now (stitch-and-glue, tortured ply, bulkheaded). The materials are now different, sure, but the basic hull concepts from the Polynesians are now just pretty much refined. I have this info from reading what the designers (Wharram, Shuttleworth, etc.) have to say. They looked to the Polynesians for first principles.

Here's another tidbit: Battened sails were invented by the Chinese - have a look at junk-type sails sometime. Works the same... the Chinese have a saying about how the sail is 'an ear listening for the wind.'

Again, sorry to offend your Eurocentric sensibilities, but credit is due where it's due, and these designers just refined the concept-they didn't invent it. But then, there's nothing new under the sun.

Hmmm, I'm confused. What do you mean by "eurocentric sensibilities" when you are talking to somebody from Annapolis, Maryland?

Tami:

You go girl. Put them in there place.
Will I see you at deep South?

Doug

I'm not Polynesian, yet you don't ask this question of Mr Keith who initiated the 'sensibilities' remarks.

Nor am I but half European, the other half being Cherokee, straight outta the Quallah tribe. Being that most of the US is of European descent, as certainly was Petty and very likely Herreshoff, the term applies.

Nevertheless, Eurocentric is a term used as opposed to, shall we say, colonial, or dare I say primitive? The concept that a 'developed country' must have invented this 'modern' technology would be termed 'Eurocentric.'