| Re: A cat vs F-16
[Re: Wouter]
#67273 02/20/06 05:36 PM 02/20/06 05:36 PM |
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,121 Eastern NC, USA tshan
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121 Eastern NC, USA | Seriously, Pete. What are your top 8 to 10 characteristics that you want in a beach cat?
Tom | | | Re: A cat vs F-16
[Re: Wouter]
#67274 02/20/06 05:41 PM 02/20/06 05:41 PM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin. OP
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348 |
Have you ever sailed with a spinnaker on a beach catamaran
No, but I have sailed a H 18 against another 18 with spinnaker, radical difference! | | | Re: A cat vs F-16
[Re: Mary]
#67275 02/20/06 05:45 PM 02/20/06 05:45 PM | Anonymous
Unregistered
| Anonymous
Unregistered | Guys & Wouter: Anyone know of a Blade in the Houston area? Bill: Can we see your setup when you get it (mounting for A)? What type of boat? Doug Snell Hobie 17 Sone to be Nacra A2 or maybe Blade now? www.tcdyc.com | | | Re: A cat vs F-16
[Re: bvining]
#67277 02/20/06 06:00 PM 02/20/06 06:00 PM | Anonymous
Unregistered
| Anonymous
Unregistered | Bill:
Christopher and I may also be interested in your snail (3 or 4 of them). He has been talking to Marstrom, but I think they are to HIGH!!!! They wanted $260 euro ( around $300 right?) for there tacktick carbon compass mount.(200 plus 60 for shipping)
Doug | | | Re: A cat vs F-16
[Re: bvining]
#67278 02/20/06 06:01 PM 02/20/06 06:01 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Bill, I was joking my longwinded friend.
I know, I know. But you know me; I just have to get back with a reply. So no worries mate. I tried really hard to cut down on the text but I still felt like I failed. So .... I happen to agree with most of what you said. The only exception is that you refer to the A as "boring."
I can understand that. I wrote this in the part that contains my personal feelings/opinions. In effect this means that it is not a qualification of the A-cat that has general validity. It does so for me personally, but I'm completely convinced in other situations the sentiment if directly opposite. Of course I try to stress my personal sailing scene overhere. Despite the fact that there are about a 100 of them around I don't see them much; I move about in different circles, attent different events, sail most often on the sea. What the A has to offer is really a one design fleet racing boat. Most of the A racing - at least up here (RI,CT, NJ) is done in a one design setting. Everyone has the same uni rigged sail and they all go downwind the same way. And its very simple, clean boat, one sail, quick to rig.
I know about the simplicity of rigging only a mainsail and the cleanness of the trampoline then. I sail my F16 like that (recreationally) when I have only a little spare time. Often in the summer time I go to the beach at about 7 pm and do a little sail till about 9 or 10 pm. Of course as The Netherlands is so far north that we daylight till very late in the evening. With respect to One-design fleets, indeed, you are absolutely correct. I just wrote "boring" in my personal appreciation as we have only 3 OD A-cat races per year where I am. The rest is open class. Even 1 of these OD races is nothing more then an Open class start together with the F18's etc where the results are filtered out later. So in my personal stuation (I underline that again) the A-cat does not offer me much in the way of strict OD sailing. Especially not when you have to duck spi poles of some 40 other boats who share the same start and course. But certainly; situations differ from place to place. Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: A cat vs F-16
[Re: tshan]
#67279 02/20/06 06:03 PM 02/20/06 06:03 PM |
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,348 fin. OP
Carpal Tunnel
|
OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348 | Seriously, Pete. What are your top 8 to 10 characteristics that you want in a beach cat? 1 light weight 2 durability 3 single handed performance Wouter's gonna kill me! This isn't the same as it was a couple weeks ago~ 4 good class participation * this is particularly important, I'd like to be able to gauge my performance against other sailors without needing a calculator. 5 good economics- reasonable going in cost vs resale 6 rig should not be overpowering- I'm not getting any younger. 7 relative ease in rigging up or down 8 peak performance should be in 8-10 knots. 9 the boat has to speak to me. I have to just be able to look at it and think "I REALLY want to do this". Absent that, it's too much work and way too much money! 10 a good balance of camaraderie and competition. Obviously, I like to just sit around and shoot the breeze, as well as sail. | | | Re: A cat vs F-16
[Re: Mary]
#67280 02/20/06 06:06 PM 02/20/06 06:06 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | doesn't sound much more difficult than making a dress.
Actually, the same techniques are applied. The building method isn't called "stitch and glue" for nothing ! Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: A cat vs F-16
[Re: ]
#67281 02/20/06 06:23 PM 02/20/06 06:23 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Anyone know of a Blade in the Houston area?
I haven't been keeping track of the Blade F16 sales lately. I know a few were sold but only in two cases I know to were. One of them is : Tom Shannon Birmingham (AL) : Blade F16 - Delivery in 3/2006 My list for Texas says : Taipan 4.9 spi #57 (from 1992). Moved from CA to TX in 2005 Doug, best is to contact Matt McDonald at Vectorworks Marine and know for certain. Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: A cat vs F-16
[Re: bvining]
#67283 02/20/06 06:44 PM 02/20/06 06:44 PM | Anonymous
Unregistered
| Anonymous
Unregistered | Bill:
I said no way !!! Getting a JCD to mount on crossbar or may make extra mount to go in front of mast if sight is a problem. It was only $35 plus shipping and reacher sheet won't tear it off. I have a squaretop and reacher on 17 that I use tacktick on also. NICE tactical compass and timer too.
Doug | | | Re: A cat vs F-16
[Re: Darryl_Barrett]
#67285 02/20/06 07:39 PM 02/20/06 07:39 PM | Anonymous
Unregistered
| Anonymous
Unregistered | Darryl:
That is what I thought. I don't know why Haken did it to his Marstrom. He used ski poles. I would not do that to a beautiful boat like the A2. Really like your Omega!! You guys did a great job. Have any in the US yet?
Doug | | | Re: A cat vs F-16
[Re: fin.]
#67287 02/20/06 11:26 PM 02/20/06 11:26 PM |
Joined: May 2002 Posts: 1,037 Central California ejpoulsen
old hand
|
old hand
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037 Central California | A vs F-16:
Lotus Exige vs Porsche Carrera
Both will get you 'round the track quickly.
Lots of interesting engineering in both.
Neither are as common as Chevys and Fords.
Eric Poulsen A-class USA 203 Ultimate 20 Central California
| | | Re: A cat vs F-16
[Re: Tornado_ALIVE]
#67290 02/21/06 04:17 AM 02/21/06 04:17 AM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK Jalani
veteran
|
veteran
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK | I too don't see why you'd need additional holes/mounts for the pole bridle. On my Stealth (unlike the other Stealths)the wires for the spin pole simply attach to the existing forestay bridle tangs.
The only holes you'd have to drill would be in the front of the mainbeam to take the pole end fitting and, of course, any holes for the spin fittings themselves. These could be kept to a minimum by sheeting the spin either from the trampoline track or base of the shrouds. The mast fitting could be a dyneema line looped over the top of the mast but you'd still have to drill the track near the top to take the rotation loop.
John Alani ___________ Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538 | | | Re: A cat vs F-16
[Re: ]
#67292 02/21/06 06:24 AM 02/21/06 06:24 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe |
Reason : The A-cat has a double forestay and so keeping the pole up is an issue. There is no bridle strop to tie a line off to that holds the pole up and because he wanted to use the snail snuffer system he could not have a third forestay that holds up the spi pole, it would interfere with the snuffing operation. Therefor Hakan (and marstrom) uses poles rather then lines. An additional issue with double (triple) forestays is that it can be more difficult to gybe the spinnaker around the stays. And in some cases the twin forestays can prevent the spinnaker from being sheeting in properly. This happens when the forestays are far forward on the boat or when the spi pole is relatively short.
In my experience a single forestay and a mid pole alu ring snuffer system is the best system available. You take a small hit in pointing ability with the midpole snuffer, that is true, but in the way of handling it is more dependable and smoother in operation. It also allows a greater range of sheeting.
Personally I don't ever expect to see double forestays in the F16 class, not even with dedicated singlehander F16 versions. The advantages of improved platform stiffness simply don't outweight the drawbacks in handling. The fact that F16's were always intend to fly a jib helped us out in this respect. Our bows are more then strong enough to take the bridle strop and allows the sailors to keep the single forestay. I don't think this modification can be done on modern A-cats.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | |
|
0 registered members (),
474
guests, and 116
spiders. | Key: Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod | | Forums26 Topics22,405 Posts267,058 Members8,150 | Most Online2,167 Dec 19th, 2022 | | |