Now that is a silly class rule !

Wouter

Yeah, we'd have a bunch really ugly F18's out there. What is up with Marstrom's color choices? Is the guy in the paint booth color blind?

Wow, we agree!

LMFAO

No-no-no-no, both the blue and yellow boats are good looking. White is plain boring.

Might be that painter has breathed to much solvents tough..

It makes perfectly sense for me to forbid pre-preg in the F-18 class. The idea is cheap and heavy boats on a level playing field. Building a heavy boat out of pre-preg is a waste of money, as you can build a boat just as strong/stiff/heavy with vacuum or regular wet layup. F-18's are evenly supposed to have an easy to reach min. weight with plywood, so why drive costs up by using a rare material like pre-preg s-glass.

Once again, I ask, if it has no advantage, why rule against it?

They rule against it to keep the costs down, that's why they also rule against carbon masts, beams, spin poles, etc.

What does a new Tornaodo cost? What does a new F18 cost? What does a full up all carbon A cat cost? I've heard $19,000 for the new Nacra A2, with only one sail, not the three on a F18.

I guess to stop anybody from going that route and build really expensive boats.
If Marstrøm or someone else buildt some F-18's from pre-preg S-glass, put som olympic pros on it and they won the worlds and europeans, dont you think most sailors would want one of those? This is exactly what happened in the Tornado class, and as a result it's as good as a one-manufacturer class today.
I think it is a wise move for the F-18 class to forbid pre-pregs in the hulls. If they allowed carbon in the hulls, I would have a different opinion, but then they should lower the max weight also ( and morph into the 18HT, lets not go there today..).
Also, the technology for going into pre-preg production is expensive. Autoclaves are not cheap..

Timbo

I'll try to answer to yr questions

A complete Marstrom Tornado ready to sail is EUR 27,000 ex factory (tax and shipping excluded).
At the current exchange rate roughtly USD 32,100.
This is for the "basic" version (you can pay quite a lot more according to yr preferences for sails, spinnaker setup and rigging).
In Europe a complete Capricorn in the average racing trim is EUR 16,250 (VAT excluded)-EUR 18,500-19,000 (included VAT).

Actually I do not think that Marstrom is interested to build a F18. Tipically a F18 hull scales up at 100-115 lbs (45-52 Kg). Personally I attended the weighting of a Capricorn hull: it was 104 lbs (47 Kg) with fittings.
Consider that a M20 hull is 57 lbs (26 Kg) and a rock solid Javelin 2 F18HT (in plain glass and vynilester resin) is 70 lbs (32 Kg). As you see the weight limit set by the F18 rule is unable to keep down costs, but makes the boats unnecessarily heaby by 30-40 Kg.

Thanks for that info, it is too bad the F18's are so heavy but how do they change that without making all the current F18's obsolete?

Easy
You lower the weight over time, in a published and predictable manner. And open up the allowable materials.

As the weight is lowered, people get new boats and the heavy boat owners try to lighten up the last generation boats with new components. Lightening up a F18 would require a loosening of the rules, allow carbon masts, or other lighter components.

A competitive team is going to cycle a new boat every 3-5 years anyway, so why stay locked into a weight range? You could lower it over time and really not hurt the F18 racers.

In order to stay current F18 really should consider a 10 year weight reduction program

[sarcasm] yes, because otherwise the class might not grow [/sarcasm]

Exactly the point I was trying to get at !


Wouter

Indeed !

Wouter

Shouldn't we all? Humans, not boats. The obesity rate is out of control in the US (especially in the chitlins belt).

Does anyone with the "inside F18" info think this could happen? I think it would have a positive effect.

Jake, I wasnt trying to bash F18, but in 5 or 7 or 10 years, what will the world look like? Do you think the F18 will stay current at its current min weight if other lighter faster boats or classes take hold? I mean look at the F16 for a glint of that happening now.

The F18 will grow and will continue to be successful, but what happens when the next new new thing comes out? We all going to jump on that?

Just my 2 cents, and what do I know?

Who knows? We've certainly seen a lot of classes come and go - but have we seen a class explode like F18 in the past? My point is that the rule seems to fit the bill for a lot of people. I don't have any trouble moving my boat around on shore and speed, for me, is relative. Hell, I REALLY enjoy racing Waves as long as there is a tough fleet (if you haven't tried it - you should!). F18HT's were light and probably faster (?) but that didn't shake out real well. Class health is not necessarily measured by boat weight and overall speed.

Best F18 'round here seems to be the one with Pete Melvin on it


Mike.

Jake... you make the claim that the F18's are experiencing such great growth. (forget the world situation )

In the USA... Have you compared the growth of the F18 class to the growth of the Hobie 20 fleet? (they had 70 boat nationals once upon a time)
Betcha they are not much different and may actually lead the F18's

Seems to me that what you are seeing is not so much growth... as consolidation.... Old boats are retired (nobody wants to be last boat owner in a dying class) and racers have gravitated to the F18. Much the same happened with the hobie 20 where lots of hobie sailors moved to the boat and created that boat as a hot class for 4 or 5 years.

I don't see lots of new sailors on F18's.. I see lots of I20 and Hobie 20 racers. More of a zero sum game.

Yeah, I'll buy that, but you now have two lightweight classes seeing good growth, F16 and Acat. Just something to consider.