Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rating: 4
Hop To
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Re: Whats missing here? [Re: MauganN20] #68165
07/31/06 07:53 PM
07/31/06 07:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Maugan,
What exactly are ****?

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Whats missing here? [Re: Mary] #68166
07/31/06 07:58 PM
07/31/06 07:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
Quote
Maugan,
What exactly are ****?
From World Wide Words.

Its one of the more lovely idioms in the language, isnt it? Something that warms the **** of ones heart induces a glow of pleasure, sympathy, affection, or some such similar emotion. What gets warmed is the innermost part of ones being. Its not that surprising that it should be associated with the heart, that being the presumed seat of the emotions for most people. But what are the ****?

Were not sure. We do know that the expression turns up first in the middle of the seventeenth century, and that the earliest form of the idiom was rejoice the **** of ones heart.

**** are a type of bivalve mollusc, once a staple part of the diet for many British people (you may recall that Sweet Molly Malone once wheeled her wheelbarrow through Dublins fair city, crying **** and mussels, alive, alive oh!). They are frequently heart-shaped (their formal zoological genus was at one time Cardium, of the heart), with ribbed shells.

It may be that the shape and spiral ribbing of the ventricles of the heart reminded surgeons of the two valves of the ****. But I cant find an example of the word **** being applied to the heart outside this expression, which makes me suspicious of this explanation. It may be that the shape of the ****, suggesting the heart as it so obviously does, gave rise to **** of the heart as an expansion.

After this piece appeared in the Newsletter, James Woodfield pointed out that there is another possible explanation. In medieval Latin, the ventricles of the heart were at times called cochleae cordis, where the second word is an inflected form of cor, heart. Those unversed in Latin could have misinterpreted cochleae as ****, or it might have started out as a university in-joke. Oddly, cochlea in Latin is the word for a snail (from the shape of the ventriclesits also the name given to the spiral cavity of the inner ear), so if this story is right we should really be speaking of warming the snails of ones heart.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: Whats missing here? [Re: hobie1616] #68167
07/31/06 08:27 PM
07/31/06 08:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
I thought **** were scallops, like on the "Shell" sign.

Re: Whats missing here? [Re: fin.] #68168
07/31/06 08:42 PM
07/31/06 08:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina


Jake Kohl
Re: Whats missing here? [Re: Jake] #68169
07/31/06 09:38 PM
07/31/06 09:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
Pooh-Bah
catman  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
**** shots...Rum and any **** shell.


Have Fun
Re: Whats missing here? [Re: blunted] #68170
08/01/06 01:22 PM
08/01/06 01:22 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
B:

Thanks for the description of Cogitos twist mechanism. Sounds a bit complicated to get right, but I suppose that is "the way of the wing".
Your description of the assymetrical foils was most interesting! If you can, some numbers on performance difference between symmetrical and assymetrical foils would be good.

Sorry for the late reply. Have been away sailing.. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Climbing with foils [Re: blunted] #68171
08/01/06 03:15 PM
08/01/06 03:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
veteran
Luiz  Offline
veteran

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Quote
Our goal is to point the hulls straight through the water at zero degrees angle of attack... The boat is pointed a bit lower and just seems to climb to weather, in fact the other guy is just falling away... As for the wing, it's just got low drag for the amount of power it generates so that also simply allows you to point higher.


Thanks, this is what I expected.

Another one:

Due to the low drag bucket, it is unlikely that the boat has angle of attack adjustment for the foils, so I guess you just raise/lower the foils to achieve the desired lift.

The narrow bucket also requires that the exact board span is kept underwater (at work), least the angle of attack falls outside the bucket, increasing drag. An instrument indicating hull alignment with water flow would improve performance. Do you plan to have something like this or just "feel" the boat?


Luiz
Re: Climbing with foils [Re: Luiz] #68172
08/03/06 08:02 AM
08/03/06 08:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Toronto
blunted Offline
newbie
blunted  Offline
newbie

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Toronto
Foils,

We don't worry that much about keeping the boat in the "bucket". At 25' long she wants to go straight even with the boards up. The drag bucket for the foils is still about 7 degrees wide. As it is we sail the boat at the low end of the bucket most of the time to keep the apperant wind up over the wing. Pinching slows the boat down about 25% for just a few degrees of height, so we simply don't pinch unless we need to make a mark at the last minute.

Yes we raise the board if we need less lift. 6" upwind if we going more than 12 knots all the time. down hill we pull it up until the boat stops sliding to weather, or about 18" if we're doing say 16-18 knots.

Exact board span underwater? Span being the long measurement, what ever is in the water is in the water on the boards. They work with an inch in the water or 6 feet in the water. Span does not effect angle of attack, the rudder effects the angle of attack. the boards are in nice tight gaskets that do not allow for any rotation.

As for a water flow alignement indicator? For one it would weigh more, 2 it's another thing to look at. When we're doing 18 knots down hill and I'm sitting to leeward of the wing covered in spray and then we're both looking around the race course we really only want to focus on staying upright and being in a tactically good place. More toys are very low on our list of priorities.

For tuning issues like trim and angles etc, we look at our chase boat video after the day is over or talk with the coaches while testing on the water. Then we just go back and sail more and get the feel right and then just keep sailing more.

Make sense?


I cut it twice and its still too short
Re: Climbing with foils [Re: blunted] #68173
08/03/06 07:14 PM
08/03/06 07:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
veteran
Luiz  Offline
veteran

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Everything makes perfect sense except (maybe):

Quote
...Span does not effect angle of attack, the rudder effects the angle of attack...


When the boat points to a heading but the actual course is to a slightly different one (usually downwind), the foils are not working at zero angle of attack (or their intended incidence angle).

When the submersed span isn't enough to provide enough lift to match the lateral component of the sail's lift, the boat will drift to leeward at a speed that will increase the foil's angle of attack until they (with the hull, as with conventional boards) provide enough lift to match the lateral component of the sail's lift.

When the submersed span is excesive and provides more lift than the necessary to match the lateral component of the sail's lift, the boat will drift to windward at a speed just enough to decrease the foil's angle of attack until they (with the hull - very bad) generate just the necessary lift to match the lateral component of the sail's lift.

If this makes sense, the submersed span directly affects the foil's angle of attack. The angle of attack is arctan (driftspeed / boat speed).


Luiz
Re: Climbing with foils [Re: Luiz] #68174
08/30/06 01:02 PM
08/30/06 01:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 53
CT Shoreline
W
Wet1 Offline
journeyman
Wet1  Offline
journeyman
W

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 53
CT Shoreline
Blunted,

Any word on the new boat?

Re: Climbing with foils [Re: Wet1] #68175
09/07/06 09:19 AM
09/07/06 09:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Toronto
blunted Offline
newbie
blunted  Offline
newbie

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Toronto
Wet1

The new boat is in the water and we're really pleased with it. we've had a couple of quick sessions on her and she's generally pretty happy.

Certainly lighter than PL and it shows in the acceleration for sure. We've had a few new boat wrinkles to iron out in the time available and it has cost us time to work those out but we feel pretty good about the boats strength and potential performance now.

As of this time the boat is in peices being loaded into her new horse trailer for the trip to Newport next week.

we'll be sailing both our boats against the US team in Newprt RI from the 20th until the 28th of September. You're all more than welcome to come check it out. We'll be sailing out of SAIL NEWPORT at Fort Adams state park.

Oh ya, i forgot to mention, the new boat is just really sexy looking too.

We'll probably have a full article on it next week in Sailing Anarchy, I'll post a link here when it goes up.

Sorry, no pics until then.

Blunted.


I cut it twice and its still too short
Re: Climbing with foils [Re: blunted] #68176
09/07/06 09:26 AM
09/07/06 09:26 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Good luck in Newport! Really looking forward to reading about (and seeing) your new beast.

New boat pics [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #68177
09/12/06 07:42 PM
09/12/06 07:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Toronto
blunted Offline
newbie
blunted  Offline
newbie

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Toronto
Here's some shots of the new boat from two weeks ago

Enjoy

Attached Files
85564-Alphawingintent.JPG (169 downloads)

I cut it twice and its still too short
Re: New boat pics [Re: blunted] #68178
09/12/06 07:44 PM
09/12/06 07:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Toronto
blunted Offline
newbie
blunted  Offline
newbie

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Toronto
More

Attached Files

I cut it twice and its still too short
Re: New boat pics [Re: blunted] #68179
09/12/06 07:52 PM
09/12/06 07:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Toronto
blunted Offline
newbie
blunted  Offline
newbie

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Toronto
more again

Attached Files
85567-Playinghookey.JPG (182 downloads)

I cut it twice and its still too short
Re: Whats missing here? [Re: blunted] #68180
09/12/06 09:26 PM
09/12/06 09:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 270
Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
Frozen Offline
enthusiast
Frozen  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 270
Nepean (Ottawa) Ontario Canada
What a beautiful boat!

Are you describing how the wing on Patient Lady works, or another boat?

If another boat, am I correct in guessing that the wing on "Patient Lady" is controlled with the trailing edge acting like a trim on an aircraft aileron in that it goes one direction to make the aileron go the other? Or is the trailing edge like an aileron?

Do you control it by moving the front or the rear or a combination?

I am a bit surprised that the wing does not have an endplate on the top of mast and the same on the bottom although on the bottom it would likely get in the way.

A wild guess is that an endplate on the top might encourage the boat to heel more as it would tend to produce lift which when combined with a heel would tend to pull the wing sideways.

Also where is the boat in Toronto as I pass through there ocassionally? Etobicoke maybe?


Cheers
Alan F

Tiger
Re: Whats missing here? [Re: Frozen] #68181
09/13/06 01:46 AM
09/13/06 01:46 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
veteran
Jalani  Offline
veteran

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
That is an awesome looking machine! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: Whats missing here? [Re: Jalani] #68182
09/13/06 02:30 AM
09/13/06 02:30 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Nice shape to the aft section of your new wing! Looks like a much better planform than the old one. I assume you have run the numbers trough and found an advantage compared to the old one..
It looks like you have a new platform as well? Good looking beams!

In the pictures you are sailing with both boards down. I tought you used assymetrical boards, and banana boards also. Dont you raise the windward board anymore?

Re: Whats missing here? [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #68183
09/13/06 11:35 PM
09/13/06 11:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Toronto
blunted Offline
newbie
blunted  Offline
newbie

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Toronto
thanks for the comments.
We do still pull up the weather board, but if the shock cord holding it up breaks it's tought to keep it up all the way as seen in the photo.

no banana boards on the new boat, no need. she rides much happier than PL. Borderline planing. The rig is a bit further aft and much more raked so overall less pitching moment, edspite a slightly taller wing.

Frozen. The aft section, or 3 as we call it, is a simple NACA section. The front is too essentially. think of the front section as the jib and #3 as the main, the slot is, well it's a slot. So the real foil shape is the combination of the two foils. The main sheet pulls the bottom of 3 to windward and the whole wing wants to go to leeward. So the whole wing wants to fold in half vertically like a piano hinge from tack to tack, so it inverts like a soft sail. This depth to the wing is called camber. Or as I call it on the boat, power.

The deeper the wing the more power and drag it creates. Upwind we flatten it for less power and less drag, same as soft sails only way more efficient.

The angle of attack for the wing is controled by mainsheet.

Endplate, we have thought about it but it adds to our measured wing area without a direct increase in lift.Mostly a reduction in induced drag. good endplates are also sensetive to angle of attack etc. 40 feet in the air pitching around and heeling over the angle of attack is pretty variable. finally it simply adds weight. The best way to go faster in this boat is to toss things overboard or not put them onboard in the first place. 1 pound equals one second per mile advantage. Every ounce is scrutinized.


I cut it twice and its still too short
Re: Whats missing here? [Re: blunted] #68184
09/13/06 11:38 PM
09/13/06 11:38 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Toronto
blunted Offline
newbie
blunted  Offline
newbie

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 26
Toronto
one more

Attached Files
85693-AlphaHummin.jpg (412 downloads)

I cut it twice and its still too short
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 26 guests, and 86 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
toomanyhulls, madina9900, johngava, badcatsailor, wehnet
8119 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,395
Posts267,034
Members8,119
Most Online1,650
Sep 10th, 2019
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1