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Youth sailing opportunities in the new SL16 Cat #69561
03/18/06 01:49 PM
03/18/06 01:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 31
Arthur_Stevens Offline OP
newbie
Arthur_Stevens  Offline OP
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 31
The SL16 class association is looking for applications from interested youth to sail in the first GOLD CUP regatta in La Baule, France June 21-25th,2006.

We are accepting resumes from young sailors 15-19 years old from now until May 12th 2006. These resumes must be in my mail box at aj.stevens@att.net no later then 1800 hrs on the cut off date. No exceptions period.........

To be considered you must present yourselves as a team, skipper and crew. All male, all female or a combination are acceptable. The main criteria is you must have experience in sailing, preferably with spinnaker.Sailing catamarans with spinnakers will be a big plus. You must document your qualifications by including your participation in catamaran regattas in addition to any other regatta experience you may have.Include all your sailing experiences no matter the vessel or venue. We want to see you as a well rounded team that can represent the United States at this International regatta.

The team selected will fly with me from New York to France Sunday June 18th and return June 26th. Your round trip fare from New York will be paid by the SL16 association. Housing, transportation and meals are included in this adventure. If you need help getting to NY make this known within your resumes.

aj.stevens@att.net

Attached Files
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-- Have You Seen This? --
All classes not part of ISAF recognision take note [Re: Arthur_Stevens] #69562
03/18/06 02:53 PM
03/18/06 02:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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All classes not part of ISAF recognision take note !

The SL16 class is not a recognised or international ISAF class. The fact that the name "World Cup" is used in light of this without ISAF retribution suggests that ISAF is okay with this. Note how the ISAF logo is NOT displayed in the leaflet as required of any recognised/international class by ISAF regulations.

This means that any class aspiring to hold a world championship can just rename it to "World Cup" and seek protection from ISAF interverence and threats by refering to this (unrecognized) "SL16 world cup" event !

The same applies to the usage or "international" in the naming of the class. Hobie Wave class are you paying attention here.

Be sure to store the leaflet that is linked to the above post a future evidence. This double standard of ISAF is a crow bar that may come in very handy at a later time.

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 03/18/06 02:57 PM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: All classes not part of ISAF recognision take note [Re: Wouter] #69563
03/18/06 04:58 PM
03/18/06 04:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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Interesting that Art referred to it as "Gold Cup" rather than "World Cup."

Re: All classes not part of ISAF recognision take [Re: Mary] #69564
03/18/06 05:37 PM
03/18/06 05:37 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Asuncion, Paraguay
This could or could not be a scam, but certainly looks like a scam.

If so, it would be the type where they afterward tell almost all applicants (never two in the same neighborhood) that each of them was "the selected one". Then they ask to send a relatively small amount (like $ 456,78 ) to guarantee that you will not give up or something like that. Never send any money to people you don't know. Ask for references that can be checked AND check them. Very important: don't be greedy. Your greed works for the scammer.

If it is a genuine post, Mr. Stevens will certainly accept my apologies and provide information that will help verify his honest intentions.

Luiz


Luiz
Re: All classes not part of ISAF recognision take [Re: Luiz] #69565
03/18/06 05:51 PM
03/18/06 05:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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A scam? For goodness sake, NO! This is just a matter of an event using the word "World," which is not allowed by ISAF unless the class has ISAF International or Recognized status.

The problem here is that all the kids that participate in this event could possibly be deprived of their rights to participate in the ISAF Youth World Championship.

I would like to hear what Art has to say about this, because maybe ISAF has granted some special dispensation to the SL16 Class to have a "World" event.

This sounds like a great opportunity for youth sailors IF it has been cleared with ISAF.

Last edited by Mary; 03/18/06 05:52 PM.
Re: All classes not part of ISAF recognision take [Re: Mary] #69566
03/18/06 09:28 PM
03/18/06 09:28 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
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Sounds like another place where ISAF is sticking its head where it doesn't belong :P

Re: All classes not part of ISAF recognision take note [Re: Wouter] #69567
03/19/06 01:26 AM
03/19/06 01:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Switzerland
H2O_Sensations Offline
journeyman
H2O_Sensations  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Switzerland
Wouter,

Do you have any reason to react like you do?

Are you a little jalous of the energy Sirena and all his partners are planing a Multi-Countries even?

Like Mary says... do you knot all the background and possible agreement with ISAF???

If I'm not mistaken, few post earlier, you were all talking about situation of beach cat... do you think that reacting like this would provide a ,fun, friendlyship image of our sport to new comers?

Instead of playing "Catamaran game" it looks like a class war...

Sad.
Jean-Richard

Re: All classes not part of ISAF recognision take [Re: Luiz] #69568
03/19/06 01:44 AM
03/19/06 01:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Switzerland
H2O_Sensations Offline
journeyman
H2O_Sensations  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Switzerland
Have any body seen in Arthur post, a request for money?

Is this reaction because a plane may fly from NY to Paris and not from Buenos Aires or any other Major capital from Latin America?

Jr

Re: All classes not part of ISAF recognision take [Re: H2O_Sensations] #69569
03/19/06 02:45 AM
03/19/06 02:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 756
Newport, RI
wildtsail Offline
old hand
wildtsail  Offline
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Posts: 756
Newport, RI
Are you all serious? Who cares if it is the World Cup or the Gold Cup, the point is this is a promotion for YOUTH CATAMARAN SAILING. Art is a huge promoter of youth catamaran sailing in the U.S. Youth catamaran sailors are basically nearly nonexistant (compared to other classes) right now and you all turn it into a political debate?
Come on... this is one of those posts on the forum that should stay on topic and not be viewed in a negative light.
I know several catamaran sailors my age and I, all who aged out within the last few years, that would have loved to have this opportunity.
I hope someone takes advantage of this and that this post is taken seriously.
Kudos to Art for another step in the right direction, the U.S. Youth Multihull trophy is named after him for a reason.

On another note, would ISAF really ban any youths participating in this event from ISAF sanctioned events if this event does not have any special exceptions? I remember such was so with the wave class but wasn't the SL16 declared the official youth mutlihull? Also, then how is it not a ISAF recognized class?

Last edited by wildtsail; 03/19/06 02:51 AM.
Re: All classes not part of ISAF recognision take [Re: wildtsail] #69570
03/19/06 03:18 AM
03/19/06 03:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Switzerland
H2O_Sensations Offline
journeyman
H2O_Sensations  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Switzerland
Thanks for jumping into this topic and bringing positive thinking.

Jr

Definately NOT a scam, but ISAF breaking own rules [Re: Mary] #69571
03/19/06 04:09 AM
03/19/06 04:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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North-West Europe

Definately NOT a scam, but a case of ISAF breaking their own rules.


H20 wrote

Quote

Are you a little jalous of the energy Sirena and all his partners are planing a Multi-Countries even?



Sirena putting in more Energy ? Hell no, we all put in alot of energy to grow our classes. It is more a case of ISAF working against the efforts of classes that for some reason they don't approve of. I seem to remember the Hobie Wave class doing alot of good work as well and still earn the wrath of ISAF because they held an "unrecognised" world championship. SL16 does the same and everything is just dandy ?!

In addition the F20 class had to remove the world international from their name a few years ago or risk ISAF banning all F20 sailors from competing in any and all ISAF governed events. For some reason the INTERNATIONAL SL16 class doesn't have to comply with the same rulings on this. And don't tell me that the SL16 class is truly international according to the ISAF regulations, I know the regulation and it isn't.

If even have an official reply by an ISAF respresentative stating that SL16 class is neither recognised nor international and ISAF have not used the "exceptional status" ruling in the SL16 case. The SL16 class is just like the Wave class and others and therefor can not use the words "world" or "international" in relation to their class and events.

I wouldn't have any problem with this situation if it were not for the ISAF double standard.

Now I know that "who you know" is of importance here, but that is just favoritism and something none of us should accept.

My preferred situation would be for ISAF to back off permanently and just make "recognition" really attractive for the classes themselfs. I'm sorry to say but this SL16 case is just the one to break open ISAF stranglehold.


Quote

The problem here is that all the kids that participate in this event could possibly be deprived of their rights to participate in the ISAF Youth World Championship.



I'm not to worried about that. I'm quite sure that ISAF is full aware of the situation, they just want to break their own rules because it is they themselfs who are trying to build up this class. And wonder oh wonder they run into the same problems as any other class. You just can't suddenly become an international or recognised class overnight. Not being able to have regional championships and world championships is a serious impediment to growing your class to the required level. SL16 class will have to have a world championship of some sort or they won't sell any boats. It is far more cheap to just youth race Hobie 16's. And I bet ISAF knows this. So they temporarily forgot about their own rules.

Having said all this. I don't expect ISAF to punish any youth sailor attending however. So any youth team out there, write yourself in.



Quote

Like Mary says... do you knot all the background and possible agreement with ISAF???


Actually I do know and that is the problem. The rules are for everyone or they are for no-one !

Let SL16 class grow themselfs over the coming years to the level of recognized/international class on their own "efforts", have them succesfully apply for ISAF status and only THEN grant them the right to hold a regional/world championship or use the word "international" in their class name. You know like all the other classes had to do.


Quote

If I'm not mistaken, few post earlier, you were all talking about situation of beach cat... do you think that reacting like this would provide a ,fun, friendlyship image of our sport to new comers?
Instead of playing "Catamaran game" it looks like a class war...



Like I said I won't have any issue with anything if ISAF had been more accomodating to other classes like the Hobie waves. It is not the sailors and class builders who are perpetuating this "war"; it is ISAF with their bad regulations and selfimposed status as protectors of the words "world" and "international". It is ISAF that has actively tried to intervene in succesful growing of the catamaran scene (ex waves).

Maybe it is a bit sad that the much needed future youth class is in the middle of this, but then again it is not fair to other classes to let this one slide.

I propose that ISAF drop their "world" and "international" regulations and active policy of threatening to ban all participants to NON ISAF recognized events. Then they can do with their SL16 class what they like and so can the other classes. And then we can happily live side by side and support one another.


Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 03/19/06 05:41 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Definately NOT a scam, but ISAF breaking own rules [Re: Wouter] #69572
03/19/06 05:56 AM
03/19/06 05:56 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Switzerland
H2O_Sensations Offline
journeyman
H2O_Sensations  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Switzerland
I'm impressed by your open mind...

Personally I do not agree with ISAF stating that "World Cup" is only for ISAF classes... but this is just my point of view. Should we ask them authorisation to practice sailing too??? I know regatta have rules... if we want to race we have to accept them and to play the game but honnestly is that an attractive way to say "Come and join us having fun. Sails with us!"?

I understand that SL16 even that will be held in June in France a great chance for Youth to have a modern, simple and nice boat.

Now just read Arthur post and show me where "World Cup", "International" or what ever is mentioned???

Arthur is asking if any body would be interested in coming to this event... is that so bad to offer the possibility to young American to come in Europe to practice their passion?

Tell me, how should they do to invite interested people to come and join this first even. Just do not advertise and wait people to come?

Now I agree that if a rule is applyed for someone, it should be for all or this rule should be ammended. I'm not in a position to change anything. I would just love that more people get used to sail catamaran (no mater which class, no matter which trademark, no matter from which region they are).

If I was part of media... I can tell you that I would not talk about guys that are never in agreement and that are fighting for their own microcosme... They would be right.

It's part of our homework to show every body how great is catamaran, like I said no matter with trademark or class we prefer. When you sail a cat, you should have fun... then if the boat is good people will come to it. If you know a good boat and would like other to try it... share your great experiences. If you encounter bad ones, try to be objective and constructive. Sure your long sentences will have even more power.

I'll make noise in Switzerland for the SL16, because I strongly believe that HC16 is now over. It is still a great boat, but after 30 years... I'm in agreement to let new boats trying to replace it (even if it will not be easy).

Hope I'll see plenty of young USA citizen in La Baule.
Jr



Re: Definately NOT a scam, but ISAF breaking own rules [Re: H2O_Sensations] #69573
03/19/06 08:32 AM
03/19/06 08:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Quote

Now just read Arthur post and show me where "World Cup", "International" or what ever is mentioned???



See the flyer attached to his post.

[Linked Image]



Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Definately NOT a scam, but ISAF breaking own r [Re: Wouter] #69574
03/19/06 08:50 AM
03/19/06 08:50 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Gus/Gals:

Who cares what things are called or who has to do it. We must get the youth involved or this sport will die. That is why I am handing old copy of "Catamaran Racing for the 90's" to grand daughter and giving her stick time this year. I started her at 7. She is 12 now. If we don't get the youth involved this sport we love will die. Lets face it the 150-250 regatta days or over for most of the country.

Do your part and take a youth up and don't criticize any effort made to help the youth.

Just my opinion.

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
www.tcdyc.com

Re: Definately NOT a scam, but ISAF breaking own rules [Re: Wouter] #69575
03/19/06 09:05 AM
03/19/06 09:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Mary  Offline
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
I just noticed they are calling themselves the "SL International Class Association." That, too, is a big no-no. You are not allowed to use "International" in your class name unless you are an ISAF International Class.

Re: Definately NOT a scam, but ISAF breaking own r [Re: ] #69576
03/19/06 09:31 AM
03/19/06 09:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
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North-West Europe


Doug,

There were youth sailors at the Hobie wave World championship and ISAF pretty much threatened to ban these sailors *FOR LIFE*; together with the other participants.

Now you tell me who is frustrating efforts to grow the sport ?

Quite a few of us are doing our part and ISAF is definately not making life easy on us.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: Definately NOT a scam, but ISAF breaking own r [Re: Wouter] #69577
03/19/06 09:50 AM
03/19/06 09:50 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
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Quote


Doug,

There were youth sailors at the Hobie wave World championship and ISAF pretty much threatened to ban these sailors *FOR LIFE*; together with the other participants.

Now you tell me who is frustrating efforts to grow the sport ?

Quite a few of us are doing our part and ISAF is definately not making life easy on us.

Wouter


Agreed.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Youth sailing opportunities in the new SL16 C [Re: Arthur_Stevens] #69578
03/19/06 12:15 PM
03/19/06 12:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 115
H
HobieZealot Offline
member
HobieZealot  Offline
member
H

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 115
Just in case any actuall youth sailors are reading this.

[Linked Image]

Re: Definately NOT a scam, but ISAF breaking own rules [Re: Wouter] #69579
03/19/06 12:29 PM
03/19/06 12:29 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Switzerland
H2O_Sensations Offline
journeyman
H2O_Sensations  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64
Switzerland
Wouter,

True, this is the flyer that was posted by the people who organize the even... I made a mistake, I was just refering to Arthur's comment... If the word "world" should be banned from every body words because of ISAF... should we accept just because it is ISAF? Shouldn't ISAF represent us and help us in making sailing more attractive for the majority of human? If not then let's re-invent a word that express that every body, from the entire world are invited...

If ISAF would like to attribute to themself some words... then they have to use for example "SL ISAF World Cup" or "International SL ISAF Cup" or what ever that incorporate their name...

We are talking about stuff that are out of our control and this is absolutely not constructive. Hobie-Cat had difficulties with the waves... then we should try to work all toghether to make such problems evolve.

I've been away from such discussion for a while and I know why... I've been away from competition skiing, windsurf for the same reason, Not Fun, No pleasure, just arguing without concret action.

When you are sailing with friends... this is real pleasure and this is what I'm trying to share, sure many of us are thinking the same.

Jr

Last edited by H2O_Sensations; 03/19/06 12:32 PM.
Re: All classes not part of ISAF recognision take [Re: Mary] #69580
03/19/06 04:49 PM
03/19/06 04:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 31
Arthur_Stevens Offline OP
newbie
Arthur_Stevens  Offline OP
newbie

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 31
Mary:
No,ISAF didn't allow the word WORLD in our brochure. See the message from them below......

"I have to inform you that the SL16 is not entitled to hold a “World Cup”.

ISAF Regulation 18 – ISAF Approval of World Championships

“ISAF approval is required for any event that is described as a World Championship, uses the word “World” in the title of the event, or …”

Our brochure was made up and sent to ISAF to look over and they rejected it so we are making a new one using the approved words GOLD CUP. I just didn't have a copy of the new one yet when I attached it to my post. Who knew it would create a litany on ISAF and catamaran sailing.

I am so glad so many people responded to my post from so far away. Paraguay and Switzerland, I hope you know you are welcome to send a team. The event is an open event and any nation can send one. Canada and Mexico have some great sailors in this age group as well as Italy, Spain, Great Britian and the Netherlands. I expect most sailing nations will be represented in June at the SL16 Gold Cup.

Best regards,
AJS

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