I was racing Saturday and had the following situation:

Approaching the weather mark on starboard, a port tack boat was able to tack in front of us, giving us his bad air. To prevent this, I had asked my skipper to foot off toward the port tacker, giving us enough room to point above him while he was recovering from his tack and building speed, also giving him a bad dose of dirty air.

When the situation developed, we were hard to weather and well above the lay line. The port tacker should have been able to lay the mark unless he was forced into irons by our bad air.


My skipper didn't seem to follow my reasoning. Was I just wrong? Is this illegal?

Comments?

I'm having a hard time figuring the relationships between the boats. do you mean the port tack boat was going to tack in front of you so you footed off until they tacked then hardened up when they slowed during the tack? I don't see anything illegal in that (if that is what you mean). But you could have just stayed on your course anyway because you had the right of way. If you were on starboard tack and they on port then you have the right of way no matter what --- unless you are within 2 boat lengths of the mark at which point I think you have to give room to the port boat. As for the layline- the leeward boat has the right away and can force you up to the point at which he is NOT above the lay line. He must maintain his "proper course" and can't point higher just to luff you up.
p.s. just thought of it some more and figured it out. You saw that he was going to tack so you went in front of him and gave him bad air. I don't see a problem with that.. you had the right of way.

I wanted to prevent them from tacking to an advantageous position. If we just held course, they would have been able to (and they did) tack in front of us. Giving us a lot of bad air. By footing off, we might have been able to make them tack short, giving us enough room to point above them, and give them the bad air.

The maneuver you suggested to your skipper is perfectly legal and fair. It's basic covering of your opponent. You were starboard, they were port, open water.

Question: Do you really think you could have fallen off and tacked in front of them? If they pulled off a tack in front of you (and if you were both hard to weather before that), then it sounds like they were in front of you the whole time. Falling off to get in front of them would not have worked.

Sounds fair to me. Basically, you guys overstood the weather mark on starboard, a port tacker could tack inside you and still lay the mark and you'd be following them in all the way. You wanted to dive down to 1) get the other boat to tack earlier (thinking they were already on the lay line) and 2) build up speed to drive over them before they came out of their tack. Sounds ok to me, in the instance that you had already overstood the mark. Next time, don't overstand and make him duck you before he tacks .

It was close, we were near the weather mark and needed only to hold course to round. I think my skipper was pinching and footing off would have put us ahead, also the jib was probably oversheeted. To complicate the issue further, the port tack boat was a Farrier 24 and having some difficult with the lumpy sea state we were in.

In any case, by doing nothing, we gave away the position uncontested.

Really!

Couldn't help it, nothing like picking a layline in chopyy/sloppy seas. Seems like closing the gap between you and the F boat could have helped.

In several books on tactics I have read (and I've found it works) in the situation you describe, you are to bear off a bit and aim directly at the skipper of the port tack boat. Hopefully he blinks and tacks early, short of the lay line, at which time you head back up, roll him with the extra speed you gained by cracking off a bit, and cause him two more tacks when he came up short. That's in a perfect world. But lots of things can happen to mess that up!

For instance, if you had yelled "Starboard!!" and he then said "Hold your course!", well, you should already be aiming at him before you yell, because if you change your course after he says "Hold" he could protest you for not holding your course and causing him to tack and/or foul you.

If I see a port tacker coming and it will be close, I either pinch up to make him think there is no way he will cross, and tack early, or bear off and let him cross, if that's what I want him to do. Obviously I want clear air into the mark so whatever I can do to get him out of my way is what I will do.

If I have really overstood by a bunch, I would even come way down, pick up speed and duck him, if it looked like he would be in my way when he tacked. Or yell for him to cross me, as I duck him, but in no case would I allow him to tack in my way. You have to decide which way you want to do it, then yell at him, in case he says "hold your course" back. Of course, if he doesn't say it...

But if he is far ahead of you and tacks on your line into the mark and dumps bad air on you, there isn't much you can do about it unless you get a lift and can pass him to windward. Of course as soon as you round, it's your turn to sit on his air. Payback's a bitch.

PTP said - "unless you are within 2 boat lengths of the mark at which point I think you have to give room to the port boat."

Wrong. At a windward mark, the port tack boat has no right of way even within the two boat length circle. Read Rule 18.3.

Absolutly positively not!

Rule 18 covers buoy room to which I think you refer.
18.1 Rule 18 does not apply:
18.1(b) while the boats are on opposite tacks either on a beat to windward or when the proper course for one of them (but not both) to round or pass the mark or obsturction is to tack.

ie: Anybody fool enough to rock up to the top mark on port tack expecting room better have their insurance paid up!

Tiger Mike

Good stuff guys! Thanks! I had COMPLETELY forgotten 18.3!

In rethinking this whole affair, we should have tacked to cover this guy way down the course when he tried, successfully, to separate from us!!

Timbo, we are thinking along the same lines. I'm upset with my skipper because we did NOTHING! We should have done SOMETHING, anything except bob along like a cork!

Wasn't there a long discussion recently about the issue of a port tack boat coming in at the mark and having right of way (or something like that. HELP RICK !
I remember seeing it somewhere.

As said above 18.3 covers the situation close in to the mark.

Also mentioned above is the call of "starboard" and "hold your course", this is also important. The "Starbord" call is not required, boats have to keep an eye out. The "hold your course" call is more important as it (in thory) communicates that the port tacker has decided what to do and so you need to wait for them to react. (it is still not a defence if there is a collission).

In this type of situation, you need to be carefull you are not accused of "hunting" the port tacker if there was an incident; The safer way it to slow down and force them to tack earlier than they want to; you can then sail over the top of them.

Yes you can bear down below your course (to the mark) to "help" pursuade them to go behind you by making them think you are not on the layline. Or you can also pinch up hard to "help" them think you are laying the mark and so they tack early. You should do this when they are a fair way away to avoid the "hunting" problems.

Did the port tacker tack in the two-length zone?
Perhaps, when you overstood the mark, you were telling the skipper to bear off EARLY to get on the layline, so rule 18.3(a) would apply?
If you overstand the mark then 18.3(b) apllies.


18.3 Tacking at a Mark
If two boats were approaching a mark on opposite tacks and one of them completes a tack in the two-length zone when the other is fetching the mark, rule 18.2 does NOT apply. The boat that tacked

(a) shall not cause the other boat to sail above close-hauled to avoid
her or prevent the other boat from passing the mark, and
(b) shall give room if the other boat becomes overlapped inside her, in
which case rule 15 does not apply.

You do need to be careful on this, especially given the speed of the boats. When the new rules were first put out there, hunting was specifically ok. With the last revision, hunting became not ok. Be careful that any tactics articles you're reading reflect the newest revisions, as the advice being given may be out of date.

Think about the safety of the situation when the port tack boat is trying to avoid the starboard boat and the starboard boat is altering course to force their hand. What appeared to be a clear situation could become a collision course at the point both boats are looking elsewhere. As stated in another post, do it early and subtle.

Pete:

Get Dave Perry's Understand the Rules book. It is easy to read and really explains the rules. MUCH easier to understand and the all text rules book. There is also a UK Cd you can get from www.apsltd.com. Just do a search for UK rules cd

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
www.tcdyc.com

You can bear off towards the port tacker as long as the port tacker is not attempting to duck you. (16.2 I believe) If your forcing him to tack early your ok. If your bearing off causes him to decide to duck you could be on shakey ground.

A port tack boat can have rights at an off-wind mark. This typically happens on starboard courses.

Tiger Mike

It happens alot when you have a gate at C mark. A port tacker with inside overlap must be given room.