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Alter Cup Update #69630
03/20/06 08:47 AM
03/20/06 08:47 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline OP
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South Carolina
John W. has laryngitis at the moment so he can’t post

We got 4 races in yesterday in the Alter Cup while the breeze stayed up around 14 knots. Standings in the top 5 are below (numbers after the names are their R1 & R2 finishes) but we still have a LOT of racing left to do. The racing has been spectacular thusfar!


1) John Casey/Kenny Pierce 2 1
2) Robbie Daniel / Hunter Stunzi 1 3
3) Robert Curry / Bret Moss 1 4
4) Olli Jason / Kelly Jason 5 2
5) Greg Thomas / Jacques Bernier 3 5

The forecast is for good breeze again today but a 40% chance of thunderstorms. Hopefully the lightning will hold off and we'll get a solid day of racing in.


Jake Kohl
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: Jake] #69631
03/20/06 09:16 AM
03/20/06 09:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
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tshan Offline
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Thanks, Jake. Keep us updated. Nasty weather all day Sunday four hours north of you.

Is that a typo for race one or were two teams awarded 1st?


Tom
Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: Jake] #69632
03/20/06 10:06 AM
03/20/06 10:06 AM
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MauganN20 Offline
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Any theatrics with the moderate breeze and the I20's?

Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: MauganN20] #69633
03/20/06 11:04 AM
03/20/06 11:04 AM
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Tornado699 Offline
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Thay had an A & B Group races.
Read Oly,s blog at sailinternational.net

Matt

Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: Tornado699] #69634
03/20/06 11:16 AM
03/20/06 11:16 AM
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Posts: 465
FL
sail7seas Offline
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FL

Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: Tornado699] #69635
03/20/06 11:50 AM
03/20/06 11:50 AM
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MauganN20 Offline
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Sounds like Oli is having problems depowering the rig. Its too bad that they can't really set the diamond tension to their specific crew weights. They could really be sailing a powered up rig and you'd really need to be quick on the downhaul to depower.

Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: MauganN20] #69636
03/20/06 12:42 PM
03/20/06 12:42 PM
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Tornado699 Offline
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I spoke w/Oly yesterday,
Thay said you can't mess with anything on these boats not even main sheet lenght(which I guess is very long).

Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: Tornado699] #69637
03/20/06 01:04 PM
03/20/06 01:04 PM
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MauganN20 Offline
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yeah the factory mainsheet length is way too long and it gets in the way.

Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: sail7seas] #69638
03/20/06 01:41 PM
03/20/06 01:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 371
Michigan, USA
sparky Offline
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Michigan, USA
Pos Team Repr R1A R1B R2A R2B Total
1 John Casey/Kenny Pierce N20 2 1 3
2 Robbie Daniel/Hunter Stunzi Olympic 1 3 4
3 Bob Curry/Bret Moss D-S 1 4 5
4 Olli Jason/Kelly Jason Pet'n 5 2 7
5 Greg Thomas/Jacques Bernier Defend 3 5 8
6 Jeff Newsome/Peter Ney J 5 3 8
7 John Tomko/Ian Billings F 2 7 9
8 Alex Shafer/Nigel Pitt N18 3 6 9
9 Matt Keenan/Ed Nolen C 8 2 10
10 Peter Nelson/Tom Hall H 9 1 10
11 Bill Gillespie/Marc Kennedy E 3 9 12
12 Kurt Korte/Brad Winquist K 7 5 12
13 Mike Krantz/David Lennard D-N 5 8 13
14 James Zellmer/Joe Valante A/B 6 7 13
15 George Pedrick/Gene Harris H20 7 6 13
16 Adam Borcherding/Vince Armato G 9 4 13
17 Susan Korzeniewski/Kevin Smith NAF18 4 10 14
18 Kirk Newkirk/Glenn Holmes Pet'n 10 4 14
19 Jim Sohn/Kristen King TheMightyHobie18 8 9 17
20 Michael Siau/Sam Ingham Youth 11 8 19

Scoring adjustments due to protests:
R1A RDG #1009/Shafer awarded 3 pts
R1A RDG #1001/Newsome awarded 5 pts
R2B RDG #1005/Newkirk awarded 4 pts

I think this might be closer to the current standings than what is shown on the Alter Cup Results.


Les Gallagher
Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: sparky] #69639
03/20/06 07:56 PM
03/20/06 07:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Jake  Offline OP
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South Carolina
Les,

Those are way off....where did you get those? Positions after today are becoming public very soon.

Jake


Jake Kohl
Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: Jake] #69640
03/20/06 08:07 PM
03/20/06 08:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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here's the results after today. It got quite breezy today with 20+ recorded at times. Catsailor won't allow a word document attachment but the results will be up on the US sailing site soon...Top five is Casey, Daniel, Pitt, Curry, Thomas. With one more race, the throw out comes into effect which will benefit Pitt the most at the moment.



Jake Kohl
Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: Jake] #69641
03/21/06 08:55 AM
03/21/06 08:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 371
Michigan, USA
sparky Offline
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Michigan, USA
Quote
Les,

Those are way off....where did you get those? Positions after today are becoming public very soon.

Jake


I got off the Alter Cup web page, but I deducted 10 points from everyone in the last race because the points ranged from 11 to 19.


Les Gallagher
Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: sparky] #69642
03/21/06 09:08 AM
03/21/06 09:08 AM
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MauganN20 Offline
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I'm pretty sure thats what happens when you get put in B fleet.

Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: MauganN20] #69643
03/21/06 09:26 AM
03/21/06 09:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 371
Michigan, USA
sparky Offline
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sparky  Offline
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B-Fleet the second race on Day 1? You surely jest!


Les Gallagher
Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: sparky] #69644
03/21/06 09:31 AM
03/21/06 09:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,121
Eastern NC, USA
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tshan Offline
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What is the format? Two groups (not fleets) racing to see who ends up in a "final", like OCR? Doesn't like any B Fleet that I've ever seen.


Tom
Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: tshan] #69645
03/21/06 10:07 AM
03/21/06 10:07 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 81
F18OxJ Offline
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F18OxJ  Offline
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Posts: 81
I think this current format is kind of cool:

We drew names for boats and fleets (A & B). For your first race your score is your finish, regardless of which fleet you were in. After the first race in each fleet, the top five from each are in A and bottom five in B. So you want to be in top 5 in your first race, because after that if you're in B you are scored your position plus 10.

After the first race the bottom three in A in each race get 'flushed' to B and the top three from B move up to A. So if you're in A you try to finish 7 or better in each race to avoid a visit to B fleet. Although you will get 2 throwouts after 10 races so one trip to B will not kill you.

Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: F18OxJ] #69646
03/21/06 11:22 AM
03/21/06 11:22 AM
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Posts: 833
St. Louis, MO,
Mike Hill Offline
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Mike Hill  Offline
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St. Louis, MO,
Some people might not understand that they have 10 brand new I20's and 20 teams. So they have to split the fleet somehow. They use to do a round robin format where everyone somewhat randomly sailed the races. They switched to this format because often toward the end of the regatta top teams were unable to compete against eachother heads up. This solves the heads up issue but causes other issues. Such as if a team has a hang up on a take down and ends up getting an 8 in a race they also have to eat an 11 on top of that. They do allow 2 throwouts after 10 races but you can't be flushed to B fleet more than once or you won't be in the top 5. I think the new system is better than the old system but I still have reservations.

Mike Hill
Area K rep.


Mike Hill
N20 #1005
Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: Mike Hill] #69647
03/21/06 11:52 AM
03/21/06 11:52 AM
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FL
sail7seas Offline
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For more than you want to know reading, the original intent was per hyperlink below but as written below the math will not work out using 10 boats for 20 skippers. The R/C modified the EORS the best they could to make it so the top teams could race against each other as many as possible vs the random Matrix system.
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...5135&page=&view=&sb=5&o=


Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: sail7seas] #69648
03/21/06 03:08 PM
03/21/06 03:08 PM
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Posts: 430
Virginia Beach, VA
Thomm225 Offline
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Pensacola News Journal reports multiple capsizes at Alter Cup. This appeared in the sports section today. Their website is www.pensacolanewsjournal.com. There may be more coverage tomorrow and later in the week.


Winds put sailors in drink
Capsizes mark Day 2 of Multihull Championships

Julie B. Connerley
News Journal correspondent

If Monday's weather was any indicator, competitors in the 20th anniversary of U.S. Sailing's Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup proved they had earned the right to be called the nation's top 20 teams.

During Race 3, five of the 10 Nacra 20s -- considered the fastest catamarans on the market -- capsized into the waters of Santa Rosa Sound.

Later, in Race 4, four boats capsized.

"Sunday's races held steady with 14 to 16 knots of wind," said race committee volunteer Dave Mimlitch, of Dallas, whose job was to check and record wind readings from the race committee boat every five minutes all day long.

"Monday began the same, but the winds built to 20 knots, then backed down to around 16 and later climbed again to 20 knots," he said. "We actually had some gusts to 24, but these boats are designed to handle those types of conditions."

For the more seasoned teams, the conditions were manageable.

The 2005 Nacra 20 national champions, John Casey and Kenny Pierce, held onto first place with seven points after Monday's four races staged out of the Pensacola Beach Yacht Club. Robbie Daniel and Hunter Stunzi held their second-place standing with nine points. Stunzi is U.S. Sailing's first Youth Multihull Champion, having won the event in 2001.

"The competition is very tight for the top three places," said John Williams, national chair for the event. "Nigel Pitt and Alex Shafer had a rough first day and finished mid-fleet. But they collected themselves and made an excellent recovery."

Pitt is a former Nacra 20 champion. He didn't go into the water Monday, but his hat did, just before a race start. He recovered it, and the team went on to win both its races and move into third place with 11 points.

For some teams, higher winds combined with boats never previously sailed tested the upper limit of their capabilities and explained the many capsizes. One team chose not to race; another chose not to fly the spinnaker during its assigned race.

Kurt Korte, 41, or Roscoe, Ill., and Brad Winquist, 42 of Pewaukee, Wis., capsized in their first race while leading the pack. They righted themselves and managed to finish fifth. In their second round, they took first. Their total points earned them a place in the "A" heat with the leaders.

"And we plan to stay there," Korte said.


Tom Turlington
NACRA F17 #12

Re: Alter Cup Update [Re: Thomm225] #69649
03/21/06 05:13 PM
03/21/06 05:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 454
Syracuse, NY Hobie Fleet 204
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Tom Korz Offline
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Racing done for the day 3 pm cst.

Too much wind!!!!

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