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2 piece carbon fibre mast #69833
03/22/06 01:01 PM
03/22/06 01:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 183
john p Offline OP
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john p  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 183
This is a bit of market research, we are toying with the idea of making a 2 part carbon mast, mainly for shipping boats abroad, but obviously it could make it easier to transport for sailors as well, do you think there would be any interest in this product?


John Pierce

[email]stealthmarine@btinternet.com
/email]
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Re: 2 piece carbon fibre mast [Re: john p] #69834
03/22/06 01:25 PM
03/22/06 01:25 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
I have trouble seeing when that would come in handy, except for shipping your boat in containers or with lorries. If you have the boat on a trailer, it's not much hassle driving around with the mast.

Would I buy one for those reasons, afraid not..

If I had a car-toppable boat now, then it would be a must.


Just my opinion.

Re: 2 piece carbon fibre mast [Re: john p] #69835
03/22/06 02:54 PM
03/22/06 02:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 186
rbj Offline
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rbj  Offline
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Posts: 186
Hi John,

I would think that a two piece carbon mast might be attractive to some but might best be offered as an alternative to a one piece mast since many would not want it. Besides the obvious benfit in shipping deomestically or overseas, it would also be useful to those who would like to garage the boat (ie, off season) in order to store the mast inside with the boat. As I'm sure you know, these days all windsurfing carbon masts are two piece and when well designed and constructed there's no disadvantage compared with a one piece. Breaks at the joint are generally an issue only if the mast joint is not properly seated during assembly. Another beneift of a two piece mast is that, particularly for large masts such as used for catamarans, there is the potential to replace only half of the mast in the event of breakage (ie, pitchpole in shallow water etc).

Jerry

Re: 2 piece carbon fibre mast [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #69836
03/22/06 03:42 PM
03/22/06 03:42 PM

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"If I had a car-toppable boat now, then it would be a must."

You mean like this one?

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Re: 2 piece carbon fibre mast [Re: john p] #69837
03/22/06 05:42 PM
03/22/06 05:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
W
waynemarlow Offline
old hand
waynemarlow  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
You could even have you own "quiver " of mast tips to compensate for the one up two up scenario and the windy and not so windy days, great idea and I am sure it would probably help the building process slightly as moulds wouldn't be so long nor so unweildy nor require such a big oven to cure them in.

Re: 2 piece carbon fibre mast [Re: ] #69838
03/22/06 05:51 PM
03/22/06 05:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
Steve_Kwiksilver Offline
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Steve_Kwiksilver  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
John, I`m assuming you are thinking of a spreader setup on the mast, meaning that diamond wires need to be retensioned each time you break the mast down for transport. I see that elsewhere a spreaderless carbon mast has been discussed, with built-in prebend. I think if you combined the two you`d have a mast that can be taken apart and put together more easily, like the windsurfer masts. Unless you design the diamond wire system to be retensioned to your last good setting easily, and one which allows quick fitment and removal of the diamonds and maybe even the spreaders.
Of course all this talk is meaningless for me, unless you can retail it for around 200 pounds !
But yes, I think it would be a marketable idea, if only the cost of carbon would be more reasonable. When two-piece windsurfer masts came out they were looked on rather sceptically, now you will struggle to find a one-piece mast.

Re: 2 piece carbon fibre mast [Re: john p] #69839
03/22/06 06:42 PM
03/22/06 06:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 185
Shanghai, China
Dirk Offline
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Dirk  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 185
Shanghai, China
i think the italian bandini spar producer (or bimare itself) long time produced two part A-cat carbonmasts (with this idea behind to have soft and hard tops for different winds, crewweights etc...) they are said to had the undesired tendency to switch back to two-part mode when in use, either in strong winds or when capsized (actually I have seen this happening quite often when sailing A in Italy), very often also the lower part at the fitting to the upper part broke. besides that those masts seemed to have been never as competitive as for example a saarberg mast just made for your weight. so for competition sailing I think it will be hard to come up with a competitive two part mast. for more fun orientated sailors that might be a topic.

regarding shipping, when we imported our four taipans from australia to china the cost difference between a 20 and a 40 foot container really played not much a role...

if you can break it down to a length that you can transport it in a plane (hand luggage) than surely this might immideatly help to increase the amount of carbon fibre catamaran masts... ;-) oh yes, and just as the serious part of this feedback was finished already a sentence earlier, lets dream about kevin costners F60 featuring an impressive unfoldable power rig... just imagine... there comes light wind and you can enlarge your mast and sailsize 3 more metres... 1st of april? I admit, I am to early...

Last edited by Dirk; 03/22/06 06:45 PM.

Dirk A-Cat GER 5 F-16 CHN 1 (sold) SC 6.5 CHN 808
Re: 2 piece carbon fibre mast [Re: john p] #69840
03/22/06 11:33 PM
03/22/06 11:33 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
If there were no sacrifice in mast performance, I'd be very interested for convenience in storing in my garage, car topping, or even in trailering.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: 2 piece carbon fibre mast [Re: john p] #69841
03/23/06 04:53 AM
03/23/06 04:53 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1
M
mattcats Offline
stranger
mattcats  Offline
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M

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1
Some years ago, a friend of mine, homebuilt an a class cat, we sleeved a carbon fibre tip onto the aluminium mast at the hounds, this was however permanently in place (riveted) and incorporated the hound fitting. But there was no problem with it at all, performed very well. An idea at the time was to make a three piece mast one join at the spreaders, one at the hounds. But the only reason for the idea was because of the length of the mould we had made.

Matt

Re: 2 piece carbon fibre mast [Re: ejpoulsen] #69842
03/24/06 11:00 AM
03/24/06 11:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 183
john p Offline OP
member
john p  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 183
Thanks for your responses, if we did it it shouldn't affect mast bend and it would split above the diamonds making the longest piece about6.00m.

regards

john


John Pierce

[email]stealthmarine@btinternet.com
/email]
Re: 2 piece carbon fibre mast [Re: john p] #69843
03/25/06 09:23 PM
03/25/06 09:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
You are of course familiar with that most popular single handed racing dinghy, the Laser. It has a two peice aluminium tube mast and they do offer two different size tops, for a smaller mainsail. It is completely unstayed and rarely break. I would think you could come up with some sort of very thick carbon sleeve mast section, that along with stays, would work on a cat, and not be too fragile. The biggest advantage might be the ability to run a shorter top section for those really windy days, but then you would need a second main or a reefing main sail.


Blade F16
#777
Re: 2 piece carbon fibre mast [Re: Timbo] #69844
03/27/06 12:45 PM
03/27/06 12:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Yeah, interesting concept. How would you get the pre-bend? Could you carry the kite? Would it end up being too heavy?

Do you have free time yet, or did "D" offer a deal to keep your front seat ready on the A380?


Jay

Re: 2 piece carbon fibre mast [Re: waterbug_wpb] #69845
03/27/06 01:15 PM
03/27/06 01:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
The only thing D has offered me is an additional 19% pay cut, in addition to the 32.5% cut we took last year...oh, and they say they cannot afford to pay me the $750,000 I had in my retirement fund, saved up over the past 20 years. They are offering us each $50,000 instead...just enough for a nice van, down by the river!

Hey, how would you like to buy TWIN 17yr. old Baby sitters?! They come with 6 horses, truck and trailer! Oh yeah, they can change diapers too.


Blade F16
#777

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