It seems nearly everyone is collecting them:
these proofs of use or the evidence that the retriever line can be a nasty bitch in burning tiny little holes in the bottom part of your spi.

this seems to be mainly related if you lower the spi on that side where the retriever line would be running outside the spi and therefore runs back over the tissue to get the spi in. I think I have seen them now nearly on every snuffer used spi so far, and it seems that a clean, fast and therefore very smooth dropping of the kite is the only chance to avoid those holes... I am pretty sure that systems who seperate up- and fore-holder might not have this problem, but who would seriously consider an otherwise smooth running one line system for that? so any tips from you guys? silikon spray on the spi might not be a good idea, as repair tape wouldn't stick any longer and spraying other parts like ring (original AHPC alu-ring) or rope did not help much... a special material retriever line (which wouldn't get that hot maybe??

We have set and retrieved the spinnakers out of and into our rigid carbon spinnaker "chutes" on the F14's hundreds of times and there is no sign of the type of wear that you describe, In fact one spinnaker is getting towards the end of it's "racing" life now and the only wear showing is in the "shape" of the material through loading "stretch" and age. If the "chute", the halyard, and the retrieval line are all set up correctly, there shouldn't be any untoward wear, regardless of which ever side the kite is set or retrieved.
We use a continuous halyard/retrieval sheet line running through a 2 to 2 pull out to the end of the pole and both the set and the drop is "lightning" fast.

On my Capricorn, we had a light weight silicone sprayed nylon spinnaker that developed wear holes within only a few weeks.... We had a re-enforcement patch sewn in and is all good now.

We now also have a Landenburger kite that is a little heavier material and have used it more than the Goodall and shows no sign of wear holes....... So therefore you may find that is the type of spinnaker cloth that is used.

Hey TA,

Do you know the weight of cloth used on your Goodall spi?? I run on my Tiger and it has a few pin **** holes (they never seem to rip). Hobie spi's are of lighter material and don't seem to do it but they do rip a heap easier.

Tiger Mike

I'm running a Goodall Spi of a slightly heavier cloth as well. It is just plain cloth not silicon or whatever (was actually the cheapest around)

I run the AHPC snuffer and I run a 4 mm dyneema line with a hard and rough outer core as retrieval line. He spi is of 2003 and it has definately been broken in (understatement).

This setup is predicted by everybody to show wear after even a small period of use. I however have no wear marks in my spi other then the two times I hung it on a broken strand in my forestay. Of course these don't count.

I never ever sprayed my spi with any lubricant whatsoever.

So there appears to be a trend that the cloth choice can have the difference between a spi that wears down or one that doesn't.

Other crews use silicone spis and spray the rings and use the very smooth D12 line as retrieval line. That seems to solve the problems for them. Downside, D12 is slippery in your hands as well; my dyneema has excellent grip.

Wouter

changing the rope of the retriever line might be the best option... we all use here the standard godall taipan spi (so no silikon) and all sailors have problems with holes, to certain degrees...

in singapore i saw the same...

didn't really had this problem wit the carbon snuffer and F18 spis on my A (ex. the green one) but on the taipan it really raises questions. one crew last weekend burned a 10 cm hole in the spi, you could really see where the rope was running... of course they are still learning how to get the spi down smooth and fast, but still... there setup is right, so quite annoying if your spi looks like **** after a few times. so what is the magic D12 wouter is talking about? any site you can order it online with worldwide shipping?

I made a special retrieval line for a befriended F16 sailor (in 2004). I spliced a plain 4 mm dyneema line (rough outer core) to a D12 line. The D12 was only running along the spi (about 6 mtr. in total) and the plain dyneema made up the rest of the halyard line. This way you have excellent grip in the halyard cleat and when hoisting the spi, while still preventing damage in the spi itself. I can recommend this setup. I think that befriended crew is still using it and it happy with it. I had planned to do the same but As said earlier I have no problems with burn marks when using the plain dyneema line so I just forgot about it.

I still have the D12 line. I can take a picture of it and even send you a piece of it if you want.

More later. now I have some work to do (and tomorrow as well)

Here some links to D12 line :

http://www.layline.com/llf/llpages/htmlp3/page3.htm

http://www.sailingservices.com/running_rig/rope_marlw_exceld12.htm

http://chandlery.yachtinguniverse.com/product.php/721/0/

The main difference between plain dyneema and D12 is that D12 doesn't use the outer mantle that plain dyneema uses. The fibres are UV and abbression protect by a new clear coating. Nearly always the D12 is woven differently as well. It is not rod like but woven like a tube. This makes it very flexible indeed and easy to splice onto other lines or itself.

It does wear down quicker though. It can become furry after significant use and weathering.

Wouter

If your retrieval line is spectra/Dynema with an outer hose/cover, you can also strip the cover off and leave just the core where it rubs against the spi. Restrain yourself and dont strip more than you need to, as the core is very slippery and hard to handle. My crew hates the part of the retrieaval line where the cover is stripped off, but we removed too long a section..

Having a good working snuffer setup is also imperative. If it's a poor snuffer, the spi will clump up and holes are inevitable.

hi wouter, thanks a lot again...

seems the d12 is available only in 3 and 5mm...

if one dont want to splice them, the 3mm still works or would slip through the spinlock cleat?

regards

dirk

It will slip. You really need to put a piece of 2 mm line inside the D12 where it is to hold in the cleat. D12 can easily be flattened in cleats and then creep. By putting a filler line in as a core you can prevent that. Putting a line inside D12 is not as hard as its sounds, but special tools really do help.

Personally I'm not hot on a 3 mm thick retrieval line. Will feel like a maffioso is cutting off your fingers with a piano string.

Wouter

Hi Dirk,

To reduce chafing its best to sew/splice an additional cover over the section that lives in the spinlock. Although I have not noticed any serious wear after two years of regular use.

Hi early Spitfire kites suffered exactly the same problem no matter how we tried! class association along with the builders decided to change the cloth. The newer type feel much slippier and dont burn at all. Must be the type of cloth
gary