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Jib Cars #70116
03/24/06 05:26 PM
03/24/06 05:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11
Sacramento, Ca
acdavis Offline OP
stranger
acdavis  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11
Sacramento, Ca
So I'm looking to upgrade my 82 H16's jib cars. I currently have the old seaway cars and I can't ever get them to uncleat with out crawling up to the car and doing it by hand. I'd like something that I can just pull up on the rope and have it release. I am looking at either the Hobie cars or the one's Murray's sells. Anyone have any opinions about which one might be better or if there is another jib car that might be best? I'm not looking for a setup that I can adjust from the wire, just a good jib car that will release when the rope is pulled up, not down like the old seaway cars.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Jib Cars [Re: acdavis] #70117
03/24/06 07:26 PM
03/24/06 07:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
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Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
I have the cars out of the catalog for the stainless steel tracks. Put a cheek block on the corner of each front castings and use those to sheet the traveler in/out. Tie a shock cord between the two so they retract on their own. Just tying the traveler sheet to the locking pins seems to hold them up ok, although I don't have alot of time doing it this way. The cars that I bought came with a Ronstat cleat, and fairlead. I think it was about $140 for the pair.


I'm boatless.
Re: Jib Cars [Re: Karl_Brogger] #70118
03/24/06 07:41 PM
03/24/06 07:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
mmiller Offline
veteran
mmiller  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
The best replacement car for the original "down release" cleats is the Hobie #1075. This is a swivel cleat mounted on a car. $73.05 each (2006 Catalog).

Page 34 of the 2005 Hobie Parts Catalog and page 24 of the 2006 Catalog (printing in late March, mailing shortly after).


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Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: Jib Cars [Re: acdavis] #70119
03/24/06 07:50 PM
03/24/06 07:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
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Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
I used Trentec cars with Harken cleats mounted between the track and the mast base for 20 years. You can add additional lines to set up a barber haul system to set the cars where you wan them. It's a bullet proof system.

I'll try to do a drawing and post it.


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Re: Jib Cars [Re: hobie1616] #70120
03/24/06 08:50 PM
03/24/06 08:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
Here it is. The Trentec cars pull to the center with a bungee that passes in front of the mast through a pad eye.

The barber haul lines (red and green) go around a cheek block pop riveted to the corner casting, through the pad eye, through the lance cleat for adjustment and are tied to the shrouds.

The jib sheet is tied off with a figure eight know in the Trentec car. It goes through the block on the jib, through a block thats attached to the car with a shackle, through the Harken cleat and to the crew.

Attached Files
70804-Jib System.jpg (738 downloads)

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Re: Jib Cars [Re: hobie1616] #70121
03/26/06 09:45 PM
03/26/06 09:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,187
38.912, -95.37
_flatlander_ Offline
old hand
_flatlander_  Offline
old hand

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,187
38.912, -95.37
Mike,

That is great. I've seen dozens of boats in the midwest with this system and the lance cleats were always mounted at or near the corner casting. Love the location of these up near the mast, adjustment from the wire will be much improved.


John H16, H14
Re: Jib Cars [Re: _flatlander_] #70122
03/27/06 05:19 AM
03/27/06 05:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
Quote
Mike,

That is great. I've seen dozens of boats in the midwest with this system and the lance cleats were always mounted at or near the corner casting. Love the location of these up near the mast, adjustment from the wire will be much improved.
John, it's a very clean system that keeps the tramp pretty clear of lines so the crew won't get hung up. One thing I didn't illustrate in the drawing was to have a large loop in the barber haul line where it attaches to the shrouds. The crew will be able to snag the loop and adjust the car setting easier while still trapped out. I'd post some pictures but I donated my boat to the Boy Scouts when I moved to Maui.


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Re: Jib Cars [Re: hobie1616] #70123
03/28/06 01:18 PM
03/28/06 01:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 292
Ontario, Canada
Captain_Dave Offline
enthusiast
Captain_Dave  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 292
Ontario, Canada
Acdavis,

Last summer I upgraded from the old seaway jib cars to those mentioned by Matt Miller in the Hobie catalog. All I can say is DO IT. You won`t be dissappointed, the difference is huge.

Dave

Re: Jib Cars [Re: Captain_Dave] #70124
04/12/06 06:50 AM
04/12/06 06:50 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 50
Roanoke, VA
mattp Offline
journeyman
mattp  Offline
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 50
Roanoke, VA
Does anyone know which system is lower profile (Trentec cars with mini block vs. #1075 Lo-profile jib blocks per Matt)?


(Insert Witty Signature Here) 1988 H16
Re: Jib Cars [Re: mattp] #70125
04/12/06 07:38 AM
04/12/06 07:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306
St. Louis, MO
hobienick Offline
enthusiast
hobienick  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306
St. Louis, MO
When I first bought my H16 it had the Trentec cars without a block on them. The jib sheet just ran through one of the large middle holes in them. I sailed the boat for 3 years like that not knowing any better. If you want low profile, that is one way to go. I did not have any issues sheeting in the jib and I really liked having one less thing to get snagged on.


Nick

Current Boat
Looking for one

Previous Boats
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
'74 Pearson 30
St. Louis, MO
Re: Jib Cars [Re: mattp] #70126
04/12/06 08:23 AM
04/12/06 08:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 206
Virginia USA
CMerrell Offline
enthusiast
CMerrell  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 206
Virginia USA
1. Original Trentec setup gives you the (slightly) lowest stack up. The sheet runs through one of the large holes in the car. I always thought friction would be an issue with this setup but I don't have first hand experience. Upgrading to a smaller diameter "high tech" sheet might be a "kewl" solution.

2. Hobie lo-profile car/cleat. Nominal stack up difference compared to the Trentec. This system is very similar to the integrated track system used on new H16s.

3. Trentec car with a turning block on top (courtesy of Hobie 1616). Inventive idea that I have not seen before but not low profile. Similar stack up to the second generation Seaway system.

I agree with Matt's recommendation of the Hobie 1075. I had a similar system on my '82 H16. I really liked the jib sheet cleat on the car, using the cleat on the cross beam to control the traveller. With the Trentec system you use the cleat on the cross beam for the jib sheet and add another cleat (usually a lance cleat) for traveller control.


Re: Jib Cars [Re: CMerrell] #70127
04/12/06 08:33 AM
04/12/06 08:33 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 50
Roanoke, VA
mattp Offline
journeyman
mattp  Offline
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 50
Roanoke, VA
Quote
1. Original Trentec setup gives you the (slightly) lowest stack up. The sheet runs through one of the large holes in the car. I always thought friction would be an issue with this setup but I don't have first hand experience. Upgrading to a smaller diameter "high tech" sheet might be a "kewl" solution.

2. Hobie lo-profile car/cleat. Nominal stack up difference compared to the Trentec. This system is very similar to the integrated track system used on new H16s.

3. Trentec car with a turning block on top (courtesy of Hobie 1616). Inventive idea that I have not seen before but not low profile. Similar stack up to the second generation Seaway system.

I agree with Matt's recommendation of the Hobie 1075. I had a similar system on my '82 H16. I really liked the jib sheet cleat on the car, using the cleat on the cross beam to control the traveller. With the Trentec system you use the cleat on the cross beam for the jib sheet and add another cleat (usually a lance cleat) for traveller control.



Thanks for the replies. The Trentec cars without block sounds like a simple lo-profile, lo-budget solution.

CMerrell you answered a question I didn't ask about what to do with the original cam cleats on the cross bar if you have the jib car mounted cleats. It seems with this option, I wouldn't have to immediately upgrade to the remote jib traveler set up since the car still has the detent pin. Is this correct?



(Insert Witty Signature Here) 1988 H16
Re: Jib Cars [Re: CMerrell] #70128
04/12/06 01:22 PM
04/12/06 01:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
Quote
3. Trentec car with a turning block on top (courtesy of Hobie 1616). Inventive idea that I have not seen before but not low profile.
It worked great on the two 16s I owned. My concern with using one of the holes in the Trentec car would be friction wear on the car. If stack height had been an issue I would have recut the clew.


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Re: Jib Cars [Re: hobie1616] #70129
04/12/06 02:46 PM
04/12/06 02:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
mmiller Offline
veteran
mmiller  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
We used to shackle a H082 bullet to one of the big holes in the Tren Tec cars. That helped with the friction and when sheeted hard I seem to recall it was nearly the same profile as routed through the hole.


Hobie Cat Forums
Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: Jib Cars [Re: mmiller] #70130
04/12/06 03:03 PM
04/12/06 03:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
Quote
We used to shackle a H082 bullet to one of the big holes in the Tren Tec cars. That helped with the friction and when sheeted hard I seem to recall it was nearly the same profile as routed through the hole.
Yeah. If you really crank down on the jib and two block it the block on the car does get pulled down towards the crossbar.


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Re: Jib Cars [Re: hobie1616] #70131
04/12/06 03:23 PM
04/12/06 03:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306
St. Louis, MO
hobienick Offline
enthusiast
hobienick  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306
St. Louis, MO
It did wear the car when I did it, but you just use the other hole and double life of the car. I got a few years out of them. Since they are relatively cheap I didn't really care. I did not notice any issues with excessive friction.


Nick

Current Boat
Looking for one

Previous Boats
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
'74 Pearson 30
St. Louis, MO
Re: Jib Cars [Re: hobienick] #70132
04/12/06 04:37 PM
04/12/06 04:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacific....
Quote
It did wear the car when I did it, but you just use the other hole and double life of the car. I got a few years out of them. Since they are relatively cheap I didn't really care. I did not notice any issues with excessive friction.
When you swapped holes did you flip the car?


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Re: Jib Cars [Re: hobie1616] #70133
04/12/06 08:27 PM
04/12/06 08:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 32
Midland
Mac05 Offline
newbie
Mac05  Offline
newbie

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 32
Midland
Hey Nick - what diameter of jib sheet did you use with the trentec cars?

Re: Jib Cars [Re: Mac05] #70134
04/13/06 06:58 AM
04/13/06 06:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306
St. Louis, MO
hobienick Offline
enthusiast
hobienick  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 306
St. Louis, MO
I flipped the car around when I swapped holes.

If I remember correctly I used 3/8". It might have been 5/16". I know it was more than 1/4". I like the bigger lines since they are easier to grab hold of. I sailed mostly solo in 10-20 kts wind and I didn't want to fuss with trying to get a good grip on the line.


Nick

Current Boat
Looking for one

Previous Boats
'84 H16
'82 H18 Magnum
'74 Pearson 30
St. Louis, MO
Re: Jib Cars [Re: mattp] #70135
04/17/06 06:28 AM
04/17/06 06:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 206
Virginia USA
CMerrell Offline
enthusiast
CMerrell  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 206
Virginia USA
You are correct, sir!


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