There were some questions on another thread r/t weather helm, and a lot of interest in safety.

Since I will soon be sailing a spinnaker boat and don't know a thing about them, I thought I'd ask for help.

Are there any really stupid mistakes beginners make that can cost money or drown the initiate (me)?

don't ever let full pressure off the mainsheet while flying the kite in heavy air.

If you do, the mast falls down.

Also let the downhaul off when the Kite goes up.

what he said (i.e. what I meant)

Pete:

You should always have a small amount of weather helm. It is VERY dangerous not to.

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
www.tcdyc.com

Doug, your point about weather helm is well taken.


Jake/Scooby, you're trying to tell me the mainsheet is like a back stay? It hadn't even entered my mind.

If you pop a shute with a loose main, get ready to buy a new mast!!!!

Pete, It wouldn't have entered my mind either but I watched it happen one day last summer. It makes sense when you think about it. It also makes a GREAT DEAL OF SENSE for you to ask these guys these questions before you get out there. Good for you! I'd really appreciate you keeping us up to date with how it goes when you finally get it going. That is my next step and I'd like to learn from you.
Did you think about Rick's Hooter-sail first or just go right to the spin?
Greg

That's all very well upwind etc. but you'll find that with the kite up, your small amount of weather helm will have swapped to lee helm. If you try and dial this out, you'll have waaayyy too much weather helm upwind (very hard work and slow). Keeping one or both boards down can help to keep the boat tracking downwind even with this lee helm but you need to balance this with the extra drag and the potential for a pitchpole. I found that the Blade tolerates the boards being down very well (they're much shallower than the Stealth boards) and the boat is quite tolerant of burying anyway.

With regard to the mainsheet/backstay thing: that's exactly what the leech of the main is doing, acting as a backstay. Downwind with spin up, you sheet in the main so that it is pretty tight (but not upwind block-to-block tight) and then play the traveller. Don't let the traveller out too far though because although it won't break the mast, it will power up in a gust rather than being stalled and can then promote a bow bury or pitchpole. Keeping the mainsheet on and your mast rotated 90 degs prevents you breaking your mast from the very high point load at the top of the mast generated by the spinnaker.

Guys:

I am green here, but don't you want a little lee helm downwind? Aren't you suppose to fall off when a gust hits? Does anyone know if you can put a spinnaker on a Nacra 4.5? I am getting one for Ashleigh (grand daughter) and would like to learn spinnaker myself.

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
www.tcdyc.com

Greg:

I've ordered a Blade from Vectorworks, primarily because of the spinnaker. I think it will be a hoot.

I'll keep you posted

Pete,
I went through the same thing recently- trying to figure out a spin without either a) scaring myself to death b) killing myself or crew c) doing serious damage to the boat. After our first run I feel much more comfortable with the spin and how the boat can take it. I am very aware of the status of the mainsheet when the spin goes up. I tighten it (perhas too much) and let the traveler out a foot or so and then let go of the rope. As for the downhaul, I believe people let this out so as to descrease the compression on the mast, but I think leaving some on also helps to stabilize that axis of themast. Seems like a scary thing to do - to not hold onto the mainsheet- and if your crew is flying the spin and you feel like you need to hang on to something so you feel like you have some control- grab the traveller line. However, you will likely be surprised- as I was- how you just balance the boat with the tiller. If you feel a puff you bear off slightly and all is well. After a while it doesn't feel odd not always holding the mainsheet.

To save money:
1. When you capsize do not fall on the boom or the sail, both are weak.

2. Make sure that all your ringy dings are taped or covered. They can make the spinnaker split like a zipper.

3. Do not run over the chute. You can help alliviate this by pulling back on the spinnaker sheet, helping it stay out of the water, while your crew drops the chute.

4. Keep in mind that the chute has to be down when you are rounding the leeward mark. At first we had an agreement that the crew will make sure it is. After two times over at that mark we changed that to the skippers responsibility before heading up.

Just a note about setting:
We have found it easier to set when the boat is going downwind. I will ease a bit on the mainsheet and let the traveller go out. When she has the sail up she tells me and as I sheet in and travel up she is sheeting the spinnaker. This way she will have some shadow of the main to help her hoist and we will keep the back stay effect when she sheets in. May sound a bit too conservative for some but it works for us. Also, downwind, just go really deep at first then slowly work your angle higher and higher while you stay comfortable with the extra sail area downwind. This way you will not flog the heck out of that light sail, while learning, when you get overpowered and let it out.

Later,
Dan

PTP, definitely looking forward to some work on the water!

Thanks John.

Hello all,
i have a question that falls into this catagory, when hiking out where does one put the slack end of the main sheet, i am costantly throwing it back up on the tramp but it always manages to fall back in the water, then i waste time and concentration pulling it back up and throwing it back onto the tramp. any suggestions?
regards again,
Darrell

With the spinny flying, I always keep the traveler line in my hand to depower when necessary. I've also never been that concerned about letting the traveler go to the end of the track (stopper knot on the traveler line). Just last weekend we had a nasty windshift on the course that left us double trapped tight reaching with the chute in a lumpy breeze to get to A mark. The traveler was critical to us being able to get there without having to bear away off our lay line. There's nothin like trapping on the stern while your crew is trapping at the rear beam on an I20 with the kite up.

Dan et al, thanks so much! This is what I'd hoped for when I started this thread!

You guys are the best!

On the upwind wind have you crew hold the excess line with a loop of about 3 to 4 feet between you two. Agree that when the crew feels a pull on the sheet that he lets go of a few extra loops.

feels scary at first but with soon feel comfortable.

Next step is too have the crew sheet the mainsail while the skipper steers and does the jib or traveller.

Wouter

A little leehelm under spi is good. In effect this brings you to the safety zone (downwind) when you drop the tiller and do some other very important stuff. Weatherhelm under spi onlu makes bearing down harder and slower, something you don't want under spi.

N4.5 with spi, I don't see why not. Just make it a small one.

Wouter

The tail of your mainsheet should be tied onto the traveller control line. That way you don't have an end that will fall into the water. You will have a length of sheet that will want to drag in the water, but because it's attached at both ends it's easy to lob it back onto the tramp if it washes off.

I have only been sailing for a short time on my 6.0 with the shute. I have gained a lot of confidence with this recently, but the hardest thing to get through my head was the uncleating of the traveler to ease it. When uncleating the mainsheet, it is a downward flip of the sheet to uncleat it, but with the traveler it is an upward flip of the sheet. There were a few panic situations that arose from this confusion, but no capsizes (yet). Good luck with your shute, once you get comfortable with it, you'll wonder why you ever sailed without it!

Go over the entire front of the boat to locate & tape off snag/tear points for the Spinny. I even tape off the mast hounds & shroud attachment flange. I like to use the new type of weather-proof duct tape...transparent, doesn't distintegrate over a few weeks outdoors like the old grey stuff and doesn't leave a horrible goo after removal. Made by 3M.

Other advice is to not over tension the halyard. A year ago at the Tornado Nats in Houston, the advice was to set the pole tip such that you could grab the spinny luff and rotate your closed fist through 90 degrees (from near vertical to horizontal) before the sail stopped you. Then at the last big T event end of January, all the top guys had switched to setting the halyard quite a bit tighter than this...so you could only do about 10 degrees of fist rotation. Much more tension and you stretch out the luff quickly.

What are others doing here?

Mike.

'bout 45 degrees on the Tiger - easing out the tack a fraction if we overstand or need to reach.

Chris.

Mike,

I always liked the shape and performance with a tighter luff than the "standard" 90degrees turn. 5cm slack has been my setup for the last two years.
This will probably vary a lot between different classes tough.

While Sailing the I20 last weekend with a mainsheet that was considerably too long (it wasn't my boat so I wasn't about to start chopping lines), I handed the sheet to David after just assuming the lead, tacking, and popping out on the wire. David went to sheet it in and realized we had an issue. The slack had dropped in the water and wrapped around the windward rudder. We tried flying a hull and everything and couldn't get it to come free. David finally had to go in and raise the rudder because we wouldn't have been able to tack otherwise.

The mainsheet should be long enough that the crew can run it from the trapeze while the skipper hangs on to the traveler leaving two to three feet of slack between them.

Again, thanks to all you guys. I'm thinking about collating this thread into a handy "how-to" notebook.

But, I'm gonna be doin' this solo! Can anybody help with that?

Pete-
I'll fall off the boat in the middle of the Hogsbreath and that will be your chance to learn it all..

Some great input here for those of us new to the spi.
A few quick clarifications:
1) Easing DH prior to spi hoist: fully or partially ease? Is this in fact to reduce mast compression or to effect sail shape?
2) Playing traveller in gusts: are you dumping the traveller in gusts to spill air (this is what I have always assumed) or are you sheeting harder to stall the sail (which I doubt since I assume the sail is already stalled)?
3) Avoiding spi tears on sharpies: does anyone make plastic snap on covers for split rings so you don't need to tape them? If so, who sells them?

Rounding mark and setting the chute.

Crew's job.
Ease jib a bit before coming in from trapeze.
Hoist spinnaker while rounding mark.
Call when chute is up.
Sheet the sail.
Let off on downhaul. Ours only goes out so far as it is preloaded.
Get back out on wire.

Skipper's job
Stay on trapeze until mark is rounded.
Come in from trapeze ease the mainsheet just a bit.
Travel down the main.
Head downwind so the spinnaker can go up quickly.
Ease off on the rotation.
Travel the main up as the spinnaker gets sheeted in.
Get the windward hull in the air.
Hang on to the traveller and ease if there is a problem.
Keep main sheeted in rather tight.

That is about what we do.

Later,
Dan

One of the best ways to climb the learning curve quickly is to go lawn sailing before you hit the water. You can practice and make common mistakes w/o getting wet and running over the spinnaker. If you have spectaters let them hold the boat down if it wants to scoot along the grass. If the wind is lighter then just your weight on the boat will suffice. We have sometimes gone trailer sailing but clear the parking lot first! Better to put the boat on the grass and secure it whatever way is best for you.

You can make big mistakes this way and then get out of the boat and check it out very quickly and easily. Did a big lump keep the spinnaker from going into the snuffer? Walk over and see why as you hand snuff it. Did the spinnaker fall down in front of the hull before it went into the snuffer? If so, on the water that would have been a shrimping experience and probably would have ripped the spinnaker and maybe caused a capsize. You can practice different methods of launching and retrieval on the lawn till it looks good and seems to work well before adding the complexity of water. With a new crew you can quickly develop timing and coordination.

By yourself: You want the spinnaker to go up and come down as quickly as possible so that means using both hands and arms swinging through big arcs to get the halyard up or down fast. You can steer with whatever body part works best for you in the given conditions. In lighter air and/or smoother water, I often stand up (bent over) and hoist while steering with one leg against the tiller connecter. If it is a little rougher I will just kneel and steer with my butt or back leg against the bar. I need only about 5 - 10 seconds to do this and I count the number of pulls I make so that I know when it is there which is what you can do when you practice.

A very common newbie mistake is to bear off on the takedown and let the spinnaker sheet go before snuffing. This allows the spinnaker to get in front of the hull and then run over before you can get it sucked into the snuffer and/or the sheet gets inside the leeward hull, sometimes to the point that it gets wrapped around the rudder. This is always a lot of fun to straighten out by yourself on the water especially if it is breezy and bouncy. At least it is fun for any spectators! You can avoid this by keeping something on the sheet like a leg cleat, foot cleat, butt cleat, etc. You ease off once the sail is in the snuffer and the sheet is prventing further progress.

If you capsize then it is important to snuff the spinnaker any way you want before trying to right the boat. A wet spinnaker at the top of the mast will resist nearly any righting force, even a buoy tender at full throttle if the cat and kite is big enough (another thread).

The common newbie trimming mistake is to undersheet the spinnaker and sail too deep and slow. Trim it out till the luff breaks and then sheet it back in just enough to pull the fold out of the luff and then head up a little until the luff folds over again and then repeat until you are going as fast as you want or can handle. Feel free to move the helm a lot as once you get good at this with that size boat you can just cleat the sheet and sail just by steering unless it is very puffy and/or shifty. Normally it is fastest and most interesting to sheet some and steer some in a coordinated way which tiller time will make clear. The payoff is one of the most enjoyable cat sailing treats; flying a hull off the wind under spinnaker.

You should be good enough by the end of the season that you will have new neural pathways developed that make thinking nearly unnecessary while doing this!

I hope someone gets pix!

Mike. Thank you. Clearly you put a lot of effort into that last post. It will take some time to digest. I appreciate it.

". . .trailer sailing. . ."