| Re: Seamanship
[Re: Dean]
#72002 04/07/06 11:13 AM 04/07/06 11:13 AM |
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 248 Colorado SteveT
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Posts: 248 Colorado | What a great site. I have a friend who can tie a one-handed bowline simultniously with one in each hand. Very clever though I don't know what purpose it serves. I've watched him to it several times and have never been able to figure it out - until now.
H-20 #896
| | | Re: Seamanship
[Re: Mary]
#72004 04/07/06 12:21 PM 04/07/06 12:21 PM |
Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 984 2017 F18 Americas Site Dan_Delave
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Posts: 984 2017 F18 Americas Site | My brother, when he was a boyscout, showed me the one-handed bowline. It is very cute how it works and it does work. I do use it still, as it is actually the easiest way to tie one.
Mary I think Pat said you had to use a 3 inch [color:"blue"]diameter[/color] line behind your back. Is that what you used?
Last edited by Dan_Delave; 04/07/06 12:48 PM.
| | | Re: Seamanship
[Re: Dan_Delave]
#72005 04/07/06 12:39 PM 04/07/06 12:39 PM |
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 306 St. Louis, MO hobienick
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Posts: 306 St. Louis, MO | I spent a few summers on replica wooden sailboats from the War of 1812 (about the time Master and Commander is based on). you learn all kinds of knots working on period vessels. The ones I use(d) the most are Bowline, clove hitch, & taughtline hitch. Being able to "throw" a clove hitch over a post is a good skill to have when dealing with dock lines.
I also learned why sailors tend to be very good with knots. On some of my longer trips there wasn't much to do if you were not on watch so you practiced your knots and learned totally useless knots to pass the time.
For those of you who, like me, enjoy learning about knots pick up a copy of "The Marlinspike Sailor" by Smith. One of the best maritime knot books I have seen.
Last edited by hobienick; 04/07/06 12:47 PM.
Nick
Current Boat Looking for one
Previous Boats '84 H16 '82 H18 Magnum '74 Pearson 30 St. Louis, MO
| | | Re: Seamanship
[Re: Clayton]
#72007 04/07/06 01:41 PM 04/07/06 01:41 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD Keith
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Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD | Friend taught me a funny little saying for the bowline. Flip the loop upwards. Take the end of the rope. The rabbit goes out of the hole around the tree and back through the hole. You will never forget how to tie a bowline.
But my rabbit is dyslexic (and can't spell either). I found just tying the knot over and over you finally get it right. The bowline is real handy for most situations if you need to get it undone easily. A hand full of knots can get you through most situations. Square knot, right over left, left over right does it. If you do it wrong it becomes a granny knot... Clayton Lots of memories from Boy Scouts as a patrol leader trying to teach the other guys how to tie a bowline. I use the rabbit method, but for some reason some people get so into the rabbit and hole and such that they just can't picture the mechanics of the knot. Very funny times seeing people repeatedly reciting "the rabbit comes out of the hole..." only to end up with nothing useful and starting over again. I tried to show a powerboat friend how to tie one as I was helping him prepare his boat for Isabel. He never did tie one on his own, but I still hear jokes about the rabbit coming out of the hole and then heading for the bar. As for knots I use - figure eight, bowline, two half hitches, clove hitch, cleat hitch, square knot, taut line hitch, will add the midshipmen's tautline hitch to a clove hitch when tying a dockline to a piling in a more permanent fashion. I use two half hitches a lot for places that require a compact knot. I can do the splicing for three-strand ropes, have yet to figure out the modern braided ones... I used to swear by bungees for securing and wrapping things up, but have become very wary of them - you only have to have the end of one slip out of your hand while wrapping it around something to have a severe eye injury from the flying end hook. Velcro straps and plastic wires ties are much better... Brian Toss's book The Rigger's Apprentice is a good one for a whole variety of stuff. | | | Re: Seamanship
[Re: steveh]
#72008 04/07/06 02:42 PM 04/07/06 02:42 PM |
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 306 St. Louis, MO hobienick
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Posts: 306 St. Louis, MO | I think it does discuss braided line. I don't remember in how much detail as I do most of my splicing on "old fashioned" line. Just make sure you get the newer edition as I know the original does not cover braided line.
I also like that the book goes into how rope is made and the history of the knots. There are also plenty of decorative knots and other novelties like rope fenders.
Nick
Current Boat Looking for one
Previous Boats '84 H16 '82 H18 Magnum '74 Pearson 30 St. Louis, MO
| | | Re: Seamanship
[Re: steveh]
#72009 04/07/06 09:36 PM 04/07/06 09:36 PM |
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 306 St. Louis, MO hobienick
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Posts: 306 St. Louis, MO | Steve,
I checked the book and it does cover in detail braided line splices.
Nick
Current Boat Looking for one
Previous Boats '84 H16 '82 H18 Magnum '74 Pearson 30 St. Louis, MO
| | | Re: Seamanship
[Re: Dean]
#72010 04/07/06 09:47 PM 04/07/06 09:47 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 5,582 “an island in the Pacifi... hobie1616
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Posts: 5,582 “an island in the Pacifi... | Buntline Hitch A necessary knot for the Tornado type main halyard hook-and-ring is to use the Bunline Hitch on that ring. Dean, Thanks for posting the link. It's been ten years since I needed to use the buntline and I couldn't remember how to tie it. It works great on trap handles too. US Sail Level 2 Instructor US Sail Level 3 Coach | | | Re: Seamanship
[Re: Dan_Delave]
#72011 04/08/06 07:56 AM 04/08/06 07:56 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | Mary I think Pat said you had to use a 3 inch diameter line behind your back. Is that what you used? Dan, No, I don't have any line that big. It would take longer. But I think it is harder to tie it with a little string than with a fat rope. | | | Re: Seamanship
[Re: steveh]
#72012 04/08/06 08:42 AM 04/08/06 08:42 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | You might want to consider substituting the rolling hitch for the clove hitch. It's basically just a clove with one more loop under the overlapping piece, but it's more secure. I will try that, although I may be too old now to learn new knots. Usually I use the clove hitch for tying to dock pilings, but it is always followed up with two half hitches, because I don't trust the clove hitch alone. I have heard that a clove hitch (and rolling hitch, too, probably) are not a good way to tie dock lines for long periods of time because they cause too much wear on the lines -- that it is better to just wrap the line around the post a few times and secure with two half hitches. | | | Re: Seamanship
[Re: fin.]
#72013 04/10/06 12:09 PM 04/10/06 12:09 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA Isotope235
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Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA | Who uses which knot for what? Bowline: I use a bowline whenever I need a temporary loop that will not slip. As everybody says, it's one of the most all-around useful knots to know. I use the rabbit-and-hole method of tying. The trick is to make sure the tree is behind the hole. Two-half-hitches: I use this knot sometimes when tying a line to a post (mooring a boat to a piling) for a short period of time. It works best if there is constant tension on the line. Otherwise, it will eventually work itself loose. Cleat hitch: Of course, I use this to make a line fast to a cleat. Rolling hitch: I've seen different knots called the rolling hitch. I use it only infrequently - usually only when towing multiple small boats. I'll drag one tow line behind, and have each of the small boats tie their painters to that line with a rolling hitch. Sheet bend: This knot is superior in almost every respect to the reef knot (but not as good as the carrick bend). It works well for bending together two lines of different diameter. Be careful to tie it correctly, as it will spill if tied wrong. Reef knot: Never, ever use a reef knot to bend two lines together unless you simply don't care much about them. A sheet bend is much stronger and more secure. A reef knot does work pretty well for tying a string around something, though - so it works for reefing sails. A slipped reef knot is typically just the thing in that case. A double-slipped reef knot (aka bow knot) is good for tying shoes . Take care to avoid the granny knot as it is not secure, and can be very difficult to untie. Figure eight knot: This is typically my stopper knot of choice. Tie it in the end of any line you don't want to slip through an eye. It is compact, holds well, is easy to tie, and easy to untie. Constrictor knot: The constrictor knot is a neat little knot. It gets tighter the more you pull on it and does not come loose. DO NOT EVER TIE IT AROUND ANY PART OF YOUR BODY! It works best in string. I use it to start off simple whippings and permanent lashings. I also use it to keep twisted lines from unraveling when splicing. Bowline on a bight: I use this rarely, only when I need a slip-free loop in the middle of a line. Anchor bend: This is not what I was taught as an anchor bend. I would not use the pictured knot at all. If you do, it will come undone and you will lose your anchor. I use an anchor bend (or similar knot) to bend a line to a ring. It has the advantage of reducing chafe. Eye splice: I use this as a permanent loop in the end of a line. Trucker's hitch: I have not had occasion to use this knot. I usually tie down tarps with a bowline in one end of the line, running the end through the loop to cinch it down, and then secure with a taut-line hitch. Carrick bend: This is a great knot. I use it to bend two lines together. It is very strong and secure but easy to untie. It collapses into two bowline knots (each around the other) when pulled taut. Clove hitch: When mooring for brief periods of time, I'll drop a clove hitch over the top of a piling. I also use it to begin a temporary lashing. It should be kept under constant tension or it will work loose. Taut-line hitch: Not shown, but very useful. It allows you to tie an eye loosely and then cinch it up. It works well for temporary guy-lines and tie-downs. Well, that's what I use them for, anyway. Regards, Eric | | | Re: Seamanship
[Re: steveh]
#72014 04/10/06 12:19 PM 04/10/06 12:19 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA Isotope235
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Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA | You might want to consider substituting the rolling hitch for the clove hitch. It's basically just a clove with one more loop under the overlapping piece, but it's more secure. The load on a clove hitch should be perpendicular to the pole (or standing piece). The load on a rolling hitch should be parallel (or a very acute angle) to the pole. In either case, if the direction of the load is wrong, the knot can slip. Choose the knot that best fits your purpose. Regards, Eric | | | Re: Seamanship
[Re: Isotope235]
#72015 04/10/06 12:26 PM 04/10/06 12:26 PM |
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 141 Panama City Beach, FL steveh
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Posts: 141 Panama City Beach, FL | You might want to consider substituting the rolling hitch for the clove hitch. It's basically just a clove with one more loop under the overlapping piece, but it's more secure. The load on a clove hitch should be perpendicular to the pole (or standing piece). The load on a rolling hitch should be parallel (or a very acute angle) to the pole. In either case, if the direction of the load is wrong, the knot can slip. Choose the knot that best fits your purpose. Regards, Eric I've read that, but it's never made sense to me. With an additional wrap around the pole, how could a rolling hitch be less secure tham a clove with a perpendicular load? | | | Re: Seamanship
[Re: steveh]
#72016 04/10/06 12:28 PM 04/10/06 12:28 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA Isotope235
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Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA | How trustworty do y'all find the cow hitch for attaching the short length of line with the clew blocks to the jib clew? The "cow hitch" aka "ring hitch" works quite well for attaching sheets to the jib clew. I might not trust it in slick material like spectra or dyneema, but I've never seen it come loose in double-braid polyester line. I use it regularly for single-purchase jib sheets. Regards, Eric | | | Re: Seamanship
[Re: hobiegary]
#72019 04/10/06 11:41 PM 04/10/06 11:41 PM |
Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,658 Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus... catman
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Posts: 1,658 Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus... | Some jokers once showed me the worlds fastest way to tie a bowline. They used both hands and their arms. They through a loop into the rope while holding the rope at each end of the knot. Then fliped it a couple of times and drew the ends tight. Bingo! A dragon bowline. "Dragon?" I said. Gary, A coast guard friend showed taught me that version. He called it a flying bowline. The loop he would make with it was big enough to get over your head-arms for rescue. However I told him In my case he could take the extra time and make sure he tied it the slow way.
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| | | Re: Seamanship
[Re: catman]
#72020 04/11/06 12:00 PM 04/11/06 12:00 PM |
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 306 St. Louis, MO hobienick
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Posts: 306 St. Louis, MO | I had to learn that one when I went out backpacking in New Mexico. Many of the trails were went on were right along the endge of 30-40' drops. It works well if you fall and break one arm. Someone can toss the end of a line down to you and you can wrap it around yoru self and tie the bowline with your unbroken arm and they can haul you back up.
Nick
Current Boat Looking for one
Previous Boats '84 H16 '82 H18 Magnum '74 Pearson 30 St. Louis, MO
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