Thom,



The total costs are defined by each builder/designer but the target is between 18 and 25K for a complete boat. Price difference depends on where it is built and the design being built. Quality costs money.



As you know from your sc22 thats a reasonable range for a 22 ft boat.



That does not include the extra sails, masts, electronics etc... that every team will probably choose to run on the boat. That is just a delivered base boat. But, like I said each builder is acting independently from the series so prices will probably vary.





Steve

Don't we have too many classes already?

Rhody,



I think you need to read the above posts. This is a semi-professional series run on formula boats of 22 foot in order to reduce the weight issues of crew.



The series will have teams from all boat types, classes, and countries.



Steve

Hi Rhodysail



When you ask... don't we alrady have too many classes.

you assume a couple of things.

1) we could go back to the good old days of 4 boats. If only builders would just stop. Sailors would gravitate to a couple of designs and we would have large classes again.



Well, that would take 20 years and sailors will continue to make personal choices about the compromises they want in a boat. Obviously.... many sailors do not rank sailing what everyone else is sailing that high on the list.



2) That all cat racing is the same and one or a few sizes will fit all.



Racing is not about the boat that you race... In essence its about a group of racers who share a common focus and commitment. You do not see the Tornado class competing at your local hobie regatta. The two groups don't mix well when the competition starts . The pro 22 class is very clear about who should compete in this class. Casual racers are not the target,



Serious racers/ expectations are thwarted when they attend a regatta and find few other competitors with their focus to sail against.



Weekend sailors who are looking for a fun weekend while they race are stopped when competing becomes the major focus. The Hobie 16 class in our area manages this with A B and C fleets.



As interest in weekend racing continues to drop solutions like the Pro 22 class and the formula 18 classes may sort the racers with similar interests.



Take Care

Mark

Steve-



Do you have any idea what type of courses the races will be modeled after. They should have longer legs that enable these boats to get power up and realize their potential.



Also do you know how many sails will be allowed on board?



Thom

Majsteve,



The F22 looks very much like the :







http://users.skynet.be/catsailing/clair.JPG



Trophée des Champions Clairfontaine



and



Nations Trophy



Both events (the last is suppost to be a cirquit) are held on 25 ft catamarans with spi and wings that fold upward when the crew is not sitting on them. These boat were sailed by crews of three persons.



They're also a TV and spectator crowd cups often sailed in harbours and bays. Bouys are often quite near to the shore.



I don't know what the status of this cup is now but I used to see some reports on television till one or two years back.



ALso these cups envited sailors from all segments of the sailing sport to the class. Especially the Clairfontaine cup was structured that way.



I guess it is too late now but if it is not then maybe by going 25 ft you have another design in the class and can link up with the experience and cirquit of these two events. It could maybe jump start a US / EU cirquit instead of just the US cirquit.



WOuter

On th web I found the report that the Nations Trophy with the 25 ft Clairfontaine boats was intended to become a world cirquit in 2000 going to :



Cadiz : Spain

Canada : June

South of france : in August

Libanon : in Oktober



I know they raced in oktober in Beirut harbour in Libanon. Hand Bousholte placed 5 there.



I don't know about the other places. Maybe worth while checking. Would be a pitty when both classes are after the some pigeon. I don't expected there to be enough room for both.



Wouter

Wouter and Steve,



The F-22 is already too big, so forget the 25 footers. They would be ungainly, semi-manueverable, and not very exciting to watch. Smaller more manuverable boats should be used. I would recommend that lightweight 20 or even 18 footers be used for your series.



The 49ers are much more fun to watch than 18 skiffs and are gradually replacing them in televised international events. We have boat for boat interaction that is simply not possible with larger boats. Sometimes the bigger boats are faster in a straight line, but around the course smaller more manuverable boats are more fun.





The boats should be easy to set up and maintain. Most of all the boats should be fun to watch and sail.

If you want to start a "pro" tour the Tornado is the only real option. There is already a class and you would get the best sailors in the world straight away. No one is going to tune in to the TV to watch YOU, Mitch Booth on the other hand is a different story. The boats are one design and therefore the "pro" part (read: profitability) would actually be feasible.

Once the circuit is established for a few years then you can talk about a new boat.

If you truly want hard core, best in the world racing it's the Tornado. If you're just pretending well ... maybe not.

Interesting comment Rhody,



The 25 is too expensive. 22 is admitably big and maybe too expensive. As for using the Tornado -- no way. The new platform must be suited for sailors with a wider weight range and although the T is an exciting class all of the sailors are smaller overall. Since a majority of the sailors( for the series) will probably be coming from the J class of monohulls (already verbally committed) the series must be viewed as a level playing field for sailors in general not just catsailors who already have an advantage since it is their platform. Remember that the series will not start until 2004 with some tuning events run in 2003 and this should give teams a period of time to gain sponsors, train, and work out the kinks in general.



As for viewing, the technology being used will allow spectators to "see" the race from a excellent vantage point that makes the "picture" much more clear. In other words, you can tell who's in the lead by looking at the monitor and chart, the video is just for visual excitment. Sailing really has not been a video sport because the moment by moment has been about as exciting as watching grass grow. Hopefully, with the right use of technology people can get into the event and feel the sport at a different level.



Also, using the Tornado brings in conflict with sailors changing classifications with US Sailing and ISAF. Its an amateur/professional thing. I don't make the rules -- I just have to live by them. The series is trying to work out a format where olympic hopefuls can compete without jepordizing their status by having the purse go directly to a training budget in general. But that has a long way to go and it may never get worked out. The focus is for people who don't want to campaign a olympic boat but want to step up a notch.



And as far as pro sports goes. Someone has to start a pro series before it can be successful. You never succeed by not trying. People who never try lose everyday and never taste success. People who try lose some but atleast know what success tastes like. You decide what type of person you want to be.



Steve

BTW

You're dating yourself. Olympic sailors are all pro's with the exception of the US and other 3rd world countries.

Pro's have been allowed at least since 96 maybe 92.

Rhody,



Go read the rules again.. When you pay an attorney and he says this is what you have to do it .... you do it the way he says. Once again, I don't make the rules I just have to live by them.



Steve

Watching grass grow?



If people watch golf on tv, then sailing, especially the exciting kind, would definitely be more viewer-friendly.

It was meant as a metaphor, so to speak. I personally find NASCAR boring its just not my cup of tea. But, it is the fastest growing spectator sport -- go figure. Different things turn on different people.



Steve