| Re: Darn DPN numbers
[Re: Ventucky Red]
#75526 05/21/06 09:14 AM 05/21/06 09:14 AM |
Joined: Jun 2002 Posts: 806 Toronto, Ontario pitchpoledave
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806 Toronto, Ontario | I agree that comparing the newer boats to the older ones leads to problems. I think the solution is to separate out the newer spin boats into their own category.. We are using 3 classes this year: low portsmouth - which is all the older non spin faster boats such as hobie 20, Nacra 6, 5.8, prindle 19 etc high portsouth - hobie 16,17,18, dart 18 etc F18 (but you could make this all spin boats) This seems to work betterm although there are still problems with some boats ratings. Dave Ontario Racing Catamaran Association http://www.f18.ca/orca | | | Re: Darn DPN numbers
[Re: pitchpoledave]
#75527 05/21/06 12:42 PM 05/21/06 12:42 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | Why do you think that the PN numbers of OLD designs be adjusted upwards to slower and slower ratings?
We assume that all the boats that are racing are "in racing shape" That means... a stiff boat, and racing sails....
Would you show up to a car race... with a 15 year old car that's leaking oil and claim you need a head start?
Of course not...
Do you expect to show up at a Hobie 16 race with 10 year old sails on a vintage boat and expect to compete with the A fleet at the Syracuse mad catter .... Of course not...
Continually evaluating the data for the Prindle 16 is ridiculous.. The class does not hold a nationals much less a one design start, it's no longer built and it's likely that the sails are 10 years old when it does race in an open class. What would happen if you take a new Prindle 16 with a new class legal sail and put a P16 sailor from back in the day... on the boat.... If the ratings are kept with integrity... this fellow sails the boat to its rating and he competes against other sailors sailing their boat to the rating.
If you pollute the rating by allowing it to creep upwards... you simply make the race unfair for all of the sailors.
The argument that you are raising is the BEST argument for a measurement system... eg texel. (A point of view that I am coming around to after their latest round of updates)
The solution to your problem is not adjusting the ratings of the BOAT... rather.. you adjust the rating of the skipper on the boat.... After all... he determines the budget for his racing program... (eg he who spends nothing... to someone who invests in decent sails year after year.) This is called a personal handicap and it solves your problem of old equipment and a huge range of sailing skill. Races that are based on your ability to beat your self keep it fresh for all racers.
Splitting the fleet into a good ol boat fleet is fine... It does not undercut the integrity of a rating system and puts the racers into a class where everyone is playing with the same commitment. Score them in the overall race as well and everyone is happy.
The monohull's do this as well... on the Chesapeake Bay... they have the Good Ol Boat regatta... this is a race for those vintage 20020 year old boats that are out and want to do a race, its very popular ... AND these sailors race but once a year and perhaps in some beer can races on the weeknights. This solution recognizes the differences in commitment to going sail boat racing.
Last edited by Mark Schneider; 05/21/06 02:14 PM.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Fun with numbers
[Re: PTP]
#75528 05/21/06 10:42 PM 05/21/06 10:42 PM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,921 Michigan PTP OP
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921 Michigan | The N6.0 has an interesting history- given all the different rigging possibilities. Take, for example, the fact that if I run the boat as a 6.0NA, my rating is 62.6 witha correction for a square top (I have heard back from the sailmaker and it is not a larger sail) is 61.6 or so. HOWEVER, I have a 350 sq ft NE spin.. so my rating for a N6.0NE would be 60.4. Corrected for the square top would be 60.4*.990*.99=59.4 NOW.. lets say I don't run the spin! then mult that 59.4*1.03*1.02= 62.5!!!!! So which do I do? the 61.6 or the 62.5!!
Figured that out at work... I could further play with the Express rating and see what comes up. In the end, I guess you need to be sportsmanlike <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by PTP; 05/21/06 10:43 PM.
| | | Re: Darn DPN numbers
[Re: PTP]
#75530 05/22/06 09:22 AM 05/22/06 09:22 AM |
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,152 tampa, fl ksurfer2
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152 tampa, fl | I too have a 6.0 NA with a square top and spinnaker. I am usually assigned a rating of 59.8.
If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one | | | Re: numbers
[Re: Tony_F18]
#75535 05/26/06 04:52 PM 05/26/06 04:52 PM |
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 1,403 Ventucky Red
veteran
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veteran
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403 | Thanks for the link – appreciate it. In looking at this and if we were to use this scale, how would we figure the corrected time? I am thinking it may be with the following example using a NACRA 5.8 with Spinnaker (Texel #98) and an Inter 20 with Spinnaker (#95). The 5.8 completed a course in 2 hours and 23 minutes (143 Minutes) and the Inter 20 completed the course in 2 hours and 22 minutes (142) minutes.
To calculate the score we would multiply the Texel rating by the total minutes and the lowest number being the winner?
NACRA 5.8 – 143 X 98 = 14014 Inter 20 – 142 X 95 = 13632
Looking at this and with the measurements etc... it looks allot like ORCA, or am I getting the wrong jest of it?
Last edited by johnes; 05/26/06 04:53 PM.
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