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Spinnaker Halyard Systems #77728
06/15/06 06:32 AM
06/15/06 06:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Ever since we have started sailing spinnaker cats, we have used a combined tack line / Halyard system with the halyard running of a swivel cleat on the mast.

My new boat was fitted standard with the same system, however I have always been curious in the seperate tack line system with a Spinlock cleat on the front beam for halyard and one on the outer front for tack. I have just bought all the goodies to set up this system and plan on retaining the fittings for the other system to alow me options depending on crew available's preferance and to experiment between the 2 systems.

Obviously plenty out there have been there and done that regarding experimenting between the 2 systems and would like to here other's feedback.


-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #77729
06/15/06 07:14 AM
06/15/06 07:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
I like the separate tack line. No time is lost really - especially if you lead the tack line outboard to near the shroud so the crew can pull it and still remain on the trapeze. The separate tack line allows you to adjust the luff tension of the spinnaker - which you might need if racing on a triangle or in a distance race. It also simplifies the mechanics system of the spinnaker hoist - less chance for foul ups. As far as the halyard go, I'm pretty happy with having a headbanger mounted on the side of the mast at 'stomach' level. With the crew standing, they can hoist the chute while facing forward so they can actually see the spinnaker coming up and anything else happening on the front of the boat. With it mounted on the front beam, their head is down away from the action. I've noticed more people are mounting that headbanger (pivoting exit block) on the front center of the mast to allow access from either side of the boat - but we haven't tried that. The only drawback with the pivoting exit block is that it is difficult to keep it cleated when the spinnaker is snuffed - we're thinking about adding a small cleat to the front beam to help with this.

PS - I'm not a big fan of spinlocks. That's the only piece of hardware I've ever had fail on me (and twice too).


Jake Kohl
Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems [Re: Jake] #77730
06/15/06 07:45 AM
06/15/06 07:45 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Diagrams showing the different setups would be nice. Especially routing of the halyard/retrieval line and any bungee systems to clean up the tramp.

We have the outhaul on the beam, and is very satisfied with that. Allows us to sneak the tack out a little bit earlier and concentrate fully on hoisting the spi.
Agree fully with Jake on the triangle/distance race bit. It's a very handy 'weapon' <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #77731
06/15/06 08:30 AM
06/15/06 08:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Will get photos when the boat is back together..... Currently fitting a new beefed up front beam and fitting it out with the goodies.


Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #77732
06/15/06 10:59 AM
06/15/06 10:59 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
New Front beam - Why ?

Is the standard item not good enough, or did you damage it ?


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #77733
06/15/06 12:08 PM
06/15/06 12:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,291
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,291
Long Beach, California
I much prefer the set-up you are considering over the single-line systems and/or the mast cleat. As crew, I find I get the cleanest hoist when each foot of halyard I pull equals one foot of sail up the mast - the single-line systems trade some of that out by pulling out the tack at the same time. I also, like others, feel that you get more sail shape control by having a seperate tack line.

I don't much like the cleat on the mast arrangements I have seen so far - they can come uncleated going upwind when the crew is crossing the tramp and trips the tail... On boats that have cleats on the front beam, I get the same hoists that Jake describes by standing and pulling straight down on the halyard. The continuous line is pulling the slack through the cleat and out the sock as I hoist, and I have my head up, looking forward as the 'chute sets. With a marked halyard and your head up, it is easy to know when you're just about done - crouch to pull the last foot of slack through the cleat (you have to get back down to the tramp anyway now) and the spinnaker sheet is right there waiting for you... like an old friend... an old friend that wants to play... and crush your hand if you take a wrap for a rest... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

All that said, I really think it is a matter of preference. There are champions that use every style I have ever seen. My new boat has the cleat on the mast - I'm not willing to move it to the beam until I have tried it out a few times first... get my first chance this weekend. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #77734
06/15/06 04:16 PM
06/15/06 04:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
veteran
TEAMVMG  Offline
veteran

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
Before you start drilling, you need to take a look at how the tack line works on The Infusions - really slick. it can be set up so that there can be multiple release points around the tramp. I have one at each rear corner so that i can release going either way through the gate and there is one middle of tramp so that the crew can release it too.
i first used the two line system when we had tramp mounted spinny bags on the iF20s, it allowed us to do drops with the crew on the windward side of the boat. That always gave us an advatage at the leeward mark.

Paul
GBR 7


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems [Re: TEAMVMG] #77735
06/15/06 04:44 PM
06/15/06 04:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
Paul,

Do you have any pictures ?

I'd be very interested as to how it works <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #77736
06/15/06 04:44 PM
06/15/06 04:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
Dan_Delave Offline
old hand
Dan_Delave  Offline
old hand

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 984
2017 F18 Americas Site
I have an endpole system so I will only comment on the placement of the cleat. We have ours one the starboard side of the mast about 3 1/2 feet up. Eileen can either stand which she prefers or kneel if it is rough. We did this after talking to Jay Glaser. He said that all the Tornado teams that he was coaching were doing it this way. That was a couple of years ago and now they are starting to use the front crossbar for some reason. I did not get all the details of that because we like it right where it is.

Later,
Dan

Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems [Re: Dan_Delave] #77737
06/15/06 05:06 PM
06/15/06 05:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 461
Sydney Australia
Berny Offline
addict
Berny  Offline
addict

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 461
Sydney Australia
I'm not fully fluent with current 'T' trends but I have just set up my F14 and I chose the kis principle (keep it simple) so my halyard pulls the tackline. For me as a single hander I think it's a 'no brainer'? (did I use that term correctly)?
I see as much spare line on the tramp with either system but I have a shockord/bungey loaded block under the tramp which takes care of most of the slack. Had I positioned the rear eyelet a little further forward it might have removed all the spare line. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I take the point that it would be nice to have the option of setting tackline tension from the trap.
Steve, you'll need two halyards if you want to change back to your original system as the newer one will need to be shorter, right?

Attached Files
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Last edited by Berny; 06/15/06 05:09 PM.
Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems [Re: Berny] #77738
06/15/06 05:34 PM
06/15/06 05:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,247
Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline
veteran
dave mosley  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,247
Columbia South Carolina, USA
check this site out
http://www.seacats.org/nacraf18riggingtips.htm

and one pic from there

http://www.seacats.org/DCP_0841.JPG

hope this helps


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems [Re: scooby_simon] #77739
06/16/06 05:23 AM
06/16/06 05:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Quote
New Front beam - Why ?

Is the standard item not good enough, or did you damage it ?


Boat was the first of the new 2006 models which was to be fitted with the bigger stiffer beams. When they were assembling my boat and the beams came in.... The front had a slight twist in it. AHPC put the old style front beam on and I have just taken delivery of the new one, so it is time to swap them.


Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems [Re: TEAMVMG] #77740
06/16/06 05:33 AM
06/16/06 05:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Quote
Before you start drilling, you need to take a look at how the tack line works on The Infusions - really slick. it can be set up so that there can be multiple release points around the tramp. I have one at each rear corner so that i can release going either way through the gate and there is one middle of tramp so that the crew can release it too.

Paul
GBR 7


Yep, that is a Tornado thing...... Have seen it and will base mine of it. It will have atleast 3 release points. One for the crew just beside the retrievel line and one each side for the skipper. I am also looking at setting it up so the ones on the side also are accessable to the skipper whilst he is on trap.

The side ones will come from under the tramp, coming out of an eyelet and will run down the tramp along side where the hull and tramp join, to the rear beam..... It will then come through a saddle riveted on the front edge of the rear beam and have a loop so the skipper on trap can lean down and grab n pull. This will give the skipper access anywhere along the side of the boat. The line will be kept taught and low and will be about 1.5mm in diameter.


Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #77741
06/16/06 12:26 PM
06/16/06 12:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
veteran
TEAMVMG  Offline
veteran

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TA
you're right, i am delaying getting on the wire a bit too long in order to release the tackline. I want to be on the wire before the mark and release after. your system would enable this. Do the Ts have the tackline cleat under the tramp and behind the front beam like my Inf?

Paul

GBR7


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems [Re: TEAMVMG] #77742
06/17/06 06:28 AM
06/17/06 06:28 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline OP
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Yeah mate, on a 1:2 system also..... First saw it about 3 years ago. The T scene is the best place to pick up ideas as they have so many pros putting in full time hours experimenting with different systems.

I don't know if anybody has tried a tack release on the rear beam accesable to to skipper on trap, however it is an option I would like to have and will give it a go. Hopefully tommorrow I will have the new front beam fully fitted and will snap of some shots.



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