Ever since we have started sailing spinnaker cats, we have used a combined tack line / Halyard system with the halyard running of a swivel cleat on the mast.
My new boat was fitted standard with the same system, however I have always been curious in the seperate tack line system with a Spinlock cleat on the front beam for halyard and one on the outer front for tack. I have just bought all the goodies to set up this system and plan on retaining the fittings for the other system to alow me options depending on crew available's preferance and to experiment between the 2 systems.
Obviously plenty out there have been there and done that regarding experimenting between the 2 systems and would like to here other's feedback.
I like the separate tack line. No time is lost really - especially if you lead the tack line outboard to near the shroud so the crew can pull it and still remain on the trapeze. The separate tack line allows you to adjust the luff tension of the spinnaker - which you might need if racing on a triangle or in a distance race. It also simplifies the mechanics system of the spinnaker hoist - less chance for foul ups. As far as the halyard go, I'm pretty happy with having a headbanger mounted on the side of the mast at 'stomach' level. With the crew standing, they can hoist the chute while facing forward so they can actually see the spinnaker coming up and anything else happening on the front of the boat. With it mounted on the front beam, their head is down away from the action. I've noticed more people are mounting that headbanger (pivoting exit block) on the front center of the mast to allow access from either side of the boat - but we haven't tried that. The only drawback with the pivoting exit block is that it is difficult to keep it cleated when the spinnaker is snuffed - we're thinking about adding a small cleat to the front beam to help with this.
PS - I'm not a big fan of spinlocks. That's the only piece of hardware I've ever had fail on me (and twice too).
Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems
#77730 06/15/0607:45 AM06/15/0607:45 AM
Diagrams showing the different setups would be nice. Especially routing of the halyard/retrieval line and any bungee systems to clean up the tramp.
We have the outhaul on the beam, and is very satisfied with that. Allows us to sneak the tack out a little bit earlier and concentrate fully on hoisting the spi. Agree fully with Jake on the triangle/distance race bit. It's a very handy 'weapon' <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I much prefer the set-up you are considering over the single-line systems and/or the mast cleat. As crew, I find I get the cleanest hoist when each foot of halyard I pull equals one foot of sail up the mast - the single-line systems trade some of that out by pulling out the tack at the same time. I also, like others, feel that you get more sail shape control by having a seperate tack line.
I don't much like the cleat on the mast arrangements I have seen so far - they can come uncleated going upwind when the crew is crossing the tramp and trips the tail... On boats that have cleats on the front beam, I get the same hoists that Jake describes by standing and pulling straight down on the halyard. The continuous line is pulling the slack through the cleat and out the sock as I hoist, and I have my head up, looking forward as the 'chute sets. With a marked halyard and your head up, it is easy to know when you're just about done - crouch to pull the last foot of slack through the cleat (you have to get back down to the tramp anyway now) and the spinnaker sheet is right there waiting for you... like an old friend... an old friend that wants to play... and crush your hand if you take a wrap for a rest... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
All that said, I really think it is a matter of preference. There are champions that use every style I have ever seen. My new boat has the cleat on the mast - I'm not willing to move it to the beam until I have tried it out a few times first... get my first chance this weekend. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
- The harder you practice, the luckier you get - Gary Player, pro golfer
After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Before you start drilling, you need to take a look at how the tack line works on The Infusions - really slick. it can be set up so that there can be multiple release points around the tramp. I have one at each rear corner so that i can release going either way through the gate and there is one middle of tramp so that the crew can release it too. i first used the two line system when we had tramp mounted spinny bags on the iF20s, it allowed us to do drops with the crew on the windward side of the boat. That always gave us an advatage at the leeward mark.
I have an endpole system so I will only comment on the placement of the cleat. We have ours one the starboard side of the mast about 3 1/2 feet up. Eileen can either stand which she prefers or kneel if it is rough. We did this after talking to Jay Glaser. He said that all the Tornado teams that he was coaching were doing it this way. That was a couple of years ago and now they are starting to use the front crossbar for some reason. I did not get all the details of that because we like it right where it is.
I'm not fully fluent with current 'T' trends but I have just set up my F14 and I chose the kis principle (keep it simple) so my halyard pulls the tackline. For me as a single hander I think it's a 'no brainer'? (did I use that term correctly)? I see as much spare line on the tramp with either system but I have a shockord/bungey loaded block under the tramp which takes care of most of the slack. Had I positioned the rear eyelet a little further forward it might have removed all the spare line. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I take the point that it would be nice to have the option of setting tackline tension from the trap. Steve, you'll need two halyards if you want to change back to your original system as the newer one will need to be shorter, right?
Last edited by Berny; 06/15/0605:09 PM.
Re: Spinnaker Halyard Systems
#77738 06/15/0605:34 PM06/15/0605:34 PM
Is the standard item not good enough, or did you damage it ?
Boat was the first of the new 2006 models which was to be fitted with the bigger stiffer beams. When they were assembling my boat and the beams came in.... The front had a slight twist in it. AHPC put the old style front beam on and I have just taken delivery of the new one, so it is time to swap them.
Before you start drilling, you need to take a look at how the tack line works on The Infusions - really slick. it can be set up so that there can be multiple release points around the tramp. I have one at each rear corner so that i can release going either way through the gate and there is one middle of tramp so that the crew can release it too.
Paul GBR 7
Yep, that is a Tornado thing...... Have seen it and will base mine of it. It will have atleast 3 release points. One for the crew just beside the retrievel line and one each side for the skipper. I am also looking at setting it up so the ones on the side also are accessable to the skipper whilst he is on trap.
The side ones will come from under the tramp, coming out of an eyelet and will run down the tramp along side where the hull and tramp join, to the rear beam..... It will then come through a saddle riveted on the front edge of the rear beam and have a loop so the skipper on trap can lean down and grab n pull. This will give the skipper access anywhere along the side of the boat. The line will be kept taught and low and will be about 1.5mm in diameter.
TA you're right, i am delaying getting on the wire a bit too long in order to release the tackline. I want to be on the wire before the mark and release after. your system would enable this. Do the Ts have the tackline cleat under the tramp and behind the front beam like my Inf?
Yeah mate, on a 1:2 system also..... First saw it about 3 years ago. The T scene is the best place to pick up ideas as they have so many pros putting in full time hours experimenting with different systems.
I don't know if anybody has tried a tack release on the rear beam accesable to to skipper on trap, however it is an option I would like to have and will give it a go. Hopefully tommorrow I will have the new front beam fully fitted and will snap of some shots.