Has anyone had the opportunity to sail one of Hobie's
new Bravo's yet?

It appears to be the modern day multi-hulled sail/sun fish.

How well does it tack?

The Bravo was introduced in September of 2002.

http://www.hobiecat.com/sailing/models_bravo.html

The Bravo is a modern version of the 1970's Hobie 12 Mono Cat http://www.hobiecat.com/sailing/bravo_design.html , but it does not require a dagger board. It also has a roller furling boomless main sail. The rotomolded construction makes it very user friendly. It has handy bow and stern handles and ones molded under the forward deck. It is easy to move around, launch, retrieve and load on a trailer.

The boat sails similar to a Laser or Sunfish, but is much more stable and forgiving balance-wise. You can "fly a hull". It is similar in speed to boats like a Sunfish or a Laser. The boomless furling sail makes it super simple to launch and land on a dock. The **** is very comfortable and large enough for several crew.

It is also easy to tack.

Fun, Simple, Durable...

Thanks Matt!

OK, so who's going to be the first to pimp this ride, add a square top Pentex sail, spinnaker, trap wires, footstraps, carbon mast and rudder, and then go stomp some Laser butt!? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I would not start any fights with Laser on this. They (Laser England) has a boat that is very similiar except it's a little longer and 100 lbs lighter.

The Laser version is called the Funboat.

Looks very similar - might not have the roller-furled
mai...

How much does a Bravo go for? I'm looking for a boat I can use in the shallow bay (2 feet) where I just moved. I can envision my 18 sticking a daggerboard and the ensuing violent pitchpole.

3K

If you get a Bravo, get it with the optional boom. Otherwise, you cannot go downwind with that roller-furling, boomless main.

A 2006 Bravo lists for $2745.00

The boom does seem to add some punch to reaching performance. The boat accelerates quicker. Unless you are tying to sail DDW, you don't really need it though. Furling with the boom is a bit odd.

We almost had a boom standard on the boat, but it really is inconvenient and makes the sail furling system difficult. We opted for boomless simplicity.

What is complicated about using the boom? Can't you just clip the clew of the main to the end of the boom and unclip it when you want to furl the sail?

Our club has 7 Bravos. We bought them to use as a teaching fleet. I have been taking them out a fair amount due to having limited time and children. The boat is very quick to rig in our setting. You grab the rudder and mainsheet out of the sail locker, attach the rudder, attach the mainsheet block, put the hook on the clew, shove the boat off of the dock, unroll the sail and you're sailing. Even though it is heavier than a Laser it is much easier to slide around on the dock. In less than 5 minutes I'm out sailing, I can go out at times when I have as little as 20-40 minutes to spare, and consider it worthwhile for the effort expended. I can take out my 8 year old twins with me. They like to sit on the bows and collect milfoil. They can move around the boat and we don't have to worry much about weight placement. My daughter's first solo sail was last summer in an El Toro, her response was that she definitely preferred the Bravo, the El Toro was too tippy. Taking them out on a Laser is a pain, as their placement is important.

Maybe I'm doing it all wrong, but here is my take on the sailing characteristics. First of all the boat was not built for me, I weigh 260 lbs. The few times I've had it out in decent wind, about the time I think I'm going to have to hike and get the boat really moving, nothing happens, I look up and see that the fathead has blown off, and sheeting in more doesn't seem to help. I believe that the mast bend characteristics were not designed for me. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> On reaches in wind, I pound the bridgedeck which slows me down.
Upwind in light air puzzled me for awhile, the helm felt like it had some, reasonable, amount of weather helm, but when I looked at the tiller, it was angled slightly to leeward, indicating lee helm. I finally noticed the wake angle and figured out that the tiller probably really is angled to weather of the wake track. This is when sailing the boat flat. Getting your weight forward and to leeward, getting the lee bow in reduces leeway significantly. A longer hiking stick would be useful for this, but that would really annoy the beginners.
Without the boom, you have to sail fairly high reaches to go downwind because the sail will cup and be mostly useless. I haven't sailed in one of our club races without booms yet to experiment with angles. With the boom, dead downwind, or close to it seems to be the fastest point downwind. Sample size, one club Friday race, light wind, 3-4 starts.
The boom is easy to rig, and you can furl the sail to within a couple of turns of being completely furled while the sail is attached to the boom, the outhaul slug runs the entire length of the boom. You need to release the boom vang as the boom starts tilting up quickly as the sail winds up.

Upwind the boat could use a traveler to position the sail's clew to the leeward corner, by the time you get the top of the sail sheeted in (telltales flying), the sail is on the centerline of the boat which seems to be higher than the boat wants to point with any speed. The boom helps some as you can put on the vang and not have to sheet as close to the center, but the vang is not very powerful.

Just as a general impression watching the boats sail around the bay, the Bravo seems to be slower than a Laser most of the time. The one time I really tried to pace against a Bravo, I was on a Laser, wind 3/4 - full hike for me close hauled. The Bravo matched me closely in pointing and made about the same leeway. Speed was close enough that it took about a half minute to see that the Laser was pulling ahead.

Tacking seems to be about average for a boardless cat, you have to do it slow and careful. I have no trouble except in near drifter conditions. It has been a problem for the beginners though, as they have a tendency to jam the rudder over hard, which works fine for the Lasers, but just gets you stuck head to wind in a cat.

I think that the boat is fine for what it is. It gets me out on the water when I normally wouldn't have the time, and it sails alright. The mods I suggested would complicate the boat, making it less desirable as a quick, easy sail. If I only have time for a couple of quick reaches, I don't bother with the boom. If I intend going upwind and downwind, I grab the boom.


John
Miracle 20
Cal 40
access to variety of dinghies at WYC
students.washington.edu/sailing

It is called the Vortex and boy what a disappointment that was when I sailed it.

Wouter

Bravo:



Funboat:


Vortex:



Both the Lasers - Funboat and Vortex are described as 'tunnel hull dinghies'. The Bravo is clearly a catamaran. I also fail to see how the Vortex can be compared with either the Bravo or the Funboat, disappointing as it is to any 'real' cat sailor (even with the new assymetric) <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What is the difference, aside from bow shape? They are all the same type of boat, aren't they?

Well no, Mary they're not. I believe that the Bravo has two distinct hulls joined by a moulded bridgedeck? Although the platform is one unit, there are two separate transoms?

With the two Laser designs, although there are two distinct and separate bows, the transoms are like a dinghy. They do have a sort of concave dip on the underside of the transom, but in essence they are two hulls (at the bow), becoming one (a tunnel scow shape) at the transom. Laser have always denied that these hulls are catamarans and even the RYA have now accepted that the Vortex is a monohull. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Even Matt Miller from the Hobie Cat Company said above in this thread that the Bravo is a modern version of the 12-foot Hobie Monocat.

And it looks like all three boats have just one rudder in the center. Maybe there are "political" reasons for wanting this type of boat classified as a "monohull"?

How do you determine whether it is a monohull or a multihull? In the case of the Bravo, I think the whole thing is molded as one piece -- so, is it a one-piece multihull, or is it a monohull with an unorthodox shape? Thus, probably, the Bravo's original name of "Monocat."

"Tunnel-hull dinghy" could easily be a euphemism for catamaran. In fact, the "tunnel-hull" description could also be applied to a lot of big cruising catamarans -- just very wide monohulls with a cavity beneath. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Maybe Laser does not want to be known as making catamarans and they want credit for coming up with this great new design that looks and sails like a catamaran but they claim is a monohull.

Personally, I think this is potentially good, because if Laser is making those boats and calling them monohulls, they will eventually get them into sailing programs at the yacht clubs, which will eventually result in more kids being attracted to all the other forms of catamarans. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> What a great idea! Calling a catamaran a monohull!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

The Bravo is closer to a tunnel hull than the Funboat by a small insignificant nitpicking amount.
The V shaped support piece for the center rudder attachment looks like it extends deeper into the water on the Bravo than the Funboat, but they look very much the same to me. They both carry distinct separate hulls all the way to the end.


http://www.sail-laser.com/img/gallery/funboat/lrg/fleetBeached.jpg
You can see air all the way through on either side of the center on this picture, no dinghy transom.
http://www.sail-laser.com/gallery/sl/funboat

Bravo
http://www.hobiecat.com/sailing/gallery.php?model=bravo&img_num=28&res=hr

The Vortex rounds the hulls to more of a dinghy stern at the transom though. This I could see calling a tunnel hull.

http://www.boats.com/common/display_imag...p;x=16&y=16



At least in the case of our club, calling the Bravo a tunnel hull dinghy might have reduced the controversy in buying them.

John

Gotta say that I prefer the look of the Hobie to the
others...