Can anybody help me with these A Class questions:-

Would Marlow 9mm->6mm "Tapered Dyneema" be OK for an A-Class mainsheet? 6:1 then going up and along the boom and down to the tramp. If not what would you recommend?

It's probably just cos I'm a wimp, but I find the centre sheeting hard to hold in a blow with a 57mm ratchet block; does anybody use a 75mm block, or do I just need to spend more time in the gym... it would look huge I guess...!?

Can I safely travel with the A using a 4 bucket-type trailer or should I have to modify it to support the boat by the beams...? It's a Flyer with bonded beams.

Sailwave:

Many US sailors are using 8:1 rear sheeting systems. I have been using 1/4" (6mm) Maffioli Swiftcord mainsheet for the last year. The polyester/cordura construction is very soft and forgiving and the 6 mm size runs very freely. I had previously used 8 mm line and the change to 6 mm is much better. You don't need Dyneema for a mainsheet. That is a waste of money. Using the 6 mm size eliminates the need to have a tapered mainsheet which will always give you problems at the taper point.

The four bunker/cradle trailer will work fine. I bought some 1" thick hi-density foam like the kind used by kayakers to outfit their boats to pad the cradles on my trailer. I have been transporting my boats with this setup for 5 years with no problems.

Good luck.

Bob Hodges
A2 USA 230

Hi Bob,

Thanks. While I struggled with centre sheeting at the start, (picture kitten and ball of wool) I actually prefer it now over rear sheeting. Do you cleat your 8:1 6mm main or hold it? I could change to 8:1 on the back, but holding 6mm still sounds painful...!

Colin J

Colin,

here is some idea's from as being tried on that other lightweight singlehander boats whose names may not be said in combi with "A-cat" <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Re-route your maintraveller sheet so you get a FULL 180 degree wrap around the mainsheet ratchet blocks. Your holding power with more then double. I assume you have triple blocks both on top and bottom and a ratchet in the middle position of the lower block. And I assume you have the becket on the top block and a smaller block on the clear becket of the lower block. With this setup you can re-route the mainsheet to do a full 180 wrap around the ratchet.

Otherwise use two auto ratchets blocks on the boom (or one on boom and one on tramp). This trick is now very often used on the spinnaker boats to hold the spi sheet. We (name boat type withheld) use it all when singlehanding the spinnaker with one hand. And I can assure you that the spi loads in 20 knots are higher then the mainsheet loads. Just have these two blocks in series so the holding power of the first block magnifies the holding power of the second block. It is by far best to use autoratchets in this setup as this will allow full free running intiatially while only locking on with reaching the end of your sheeting at high loads. Also the line will run very smoothly through the blocks when you push the sheet towards the block. The blocks will then disengage fully and therefor your sheet will run quicker and more smoothly then a permanent ratchet.

I'm personally still using 1:7 on my mainsheet. And I have 5 mm swiftcord with a 3 mm dyneema core line that I inserted myself. Thus making the part that you are holding about 8 to 9 mm thick while leaving the ends at 5 mm and 3 mm thick. I have yet to develop problems at the splice (which I don't have). The 3 mm dyneema runs through my mainsheet blocks and when fully pulled on the "splice" has just passed the first sheeve. The other end acts as traveller control and is just 5 mm thick swiftcord (no line inserted there). I like my the thickness of my mainsheet and certainly wouldn't want it any smaller then that.

I hope this helps.

If you want I can make pictures of the rerouting of the mainsheet through the blocks.

Wouter

Wouter,

How much do you work the mainsheet while singlehanding? (Like the F18 crew's do).

I use a 8:1 rear sheeting and spend a lot of time in the gym. I find myself wanting 9 or 10 to 1 when the wind picks up. So, if you can use a 6:1 center, you have my respect.

I used to think I was sheeting hard until a friend sailed behind me as a coach. His comment was " I know it feels good cruising around with a full sail, but for racing you really need to sheet hard and flatten that sail out".


I sheet a lot harder now.

I liked the center sheeting but there was just too much friction to overcome when sheeting really hard.

On the Marstrom's the rachet block for the center sheeting is on the front crossbeam where you have ~160-170 degrees of wrap. It seems to work ok.

Wouter,
About what lengths work best for your multi-level Swiftcord 5 and Dyneema 3 mm mainsheet? Like---Insert only 2 of the 4 meters of 3mm and sew it up?

I did this with some 5/16 inch (8 mm, sorry) Maffioli + inserted 3 mm line but the small line is wearing on the blocks (8:1) faster than it should.
Help::: What is the double-woven-cover green line (3 & 4 mm) that comes on the Bimare boats? It is wonderful stuff not available in the USA, wears like iron and lasts forever.

I just did 2 club races solo in about 10-12 knots

On the upwind I work the mainsheet about every 5 to 10 seconds. I have a mainsail that is optimized for 150 kg doublehanded sloop sailing, So there is only so much I can do in the way of perfect trim. Meaning there are quite few times I have to let the sheet out a mtr or so. I do really try to see the gusts and steer up and down in advance as to cut down on the sheeting.

When doublehanding we work the mainsheet more often that I do singlehanded.

Under spinnaker I pretty much do significant trimming untill I find the groove and then I try to steer my way down to the marks. This seems to work rather well. Often I only drop of the groove about 3 to 4 times when going from B mark t gate and then I do a little trimming again.

Wouter

I have no wear what so ever on my 3 mm line but then again this is the same line I'm using as trap lines for many years now. In past discussion I found that my 3 mm dyneema line is more abuse resistant and stronger then what people in other area's of the world get when they order 3 mm dyneema. My line is quote at 500 kg breakstrength while most sailors can only get 250 kg 3 mm dyneema which to me appears to be only a cheap imitation.




What I've DONE is this. (later what I will do a new mainsheet)

3300 mm 5 mm swifcord
5000 mm 3 mm 500 kg dyneema

I've PUSHED the 3 mm through the whole swiftcord line then massaged the swiftcord tight and smooth over the 3 mm line and stiched ONLY the ends. The way swiftcord is build makes it grip tightly around the inner line EVEN when it is not stitched. Hence the fact that I pushed the 3 mm line through the swiftcord and NOT pulled it through. So the stitching is only there to initiate this gripping and not to transfer all the load. This is also the reason why I ONLY stithced the ends over 50 mm or so. THis seems to work well enough.

So on one end I got the 3 mm sticking out by some 1750 mm and when I attach this end to the upper block becket then I have just the right length. Pure by luck as I never engineered these lengths. It was just what I still had laying about because of other projects. the 3300 mm swiftcord is just a cut of from my downhaul line.

Because of the stitching and its initiating of the gripping action by the tightening of the swiftcord wave I believe and combo were a 500 mm overlap is present will work. I tested this without the stitching in place and it seemed to hold large amounts of force already.

I still have a seperate line for my traveller though so I have to tie these two together at their ends.



What I will do in a few weeks is to try and improve on this.

The mainsheet block end will remain as is UNLESS I decide to have the line end with 5 mm swiftcord on both ends and only insert a 3 mm core in the parts that I'm holding and that is wrapped around the ratchets at all possible stages of mainsheet tension.

The best use of the 3 mm core is to make the line locally thicker so you are not holding a rather thin line AND to prevent the swiftcord from shaping itself in to a flat tape that negates the ratchet function of the lower mainsheet block. Swiftcord is so flexible that it can actually snake itself around the cams without much friction and this is bad news for ratchets blocks. Of course the traveller end see much lower loads and doesn't use a ratchet although the same snaking can make cleating of the line troublesome. However my downhaul 5 mm swiftcord cleats just fine so I'll take the risk there I think. However I'm also thinking about inserting 3 mm dyneema core at this end as well, probably only 500 mm and pull it out a little away from the end so I get a two tales traveller end. The use of that should be clear to you.

Personally I found that having a 3 mm end running through the mainsheet allows the blocks to really rotate relative to eachother without the line rubbing on eachother, this makes the blocks run really smoothly. You must know that I was pressed for money so I could buy only the cheaper blocks. Meaning my upper block doesn't swivel. So the above advantage is important to me as my blocks with need to allow (2 * 90 =) 180 degrees rotation to eachother.


For more info read these postings :

Well do you own search on the F16 there is a full posting with pics explaining exactly what I did however since the forum upgrade the search function is just downright shitty and I can't find anything anymore. So do your own search, I haven't got the time or lust to try and make the new search do what the old one did instantly. Sorry


Wouter

Colin,

A couple of comments.

KISS (keep it simple stupid). Rear sheeting is simpler and easier to maintain. Most of the Tornado crews have switched to it because it keeps their boats cleaner. Most have given up on tapered mainsheets because they are always a maintenance issue.

Initially, I thought the 6 mm would be a killer on the hands but it is not. The key is pick the right line. Both the Maffioli Swiftcord and Samson Trophy Braid (fuzzy finish polyester braid) are soft lines and are non-Dyneema so there is a little "give" to the line that adds to the handling comfort when you pull hard. I use the orange or blue "gardening" gloves that are very popular now with the Tornado and 49er sailors. They cost $6US and last 3 months. These gloves give me better comfort and protection than the $30 "sailing" gloves.

The cam cleat on my mainsheet system is setup where I cannot cleat it sailing from the wire upwind. This forces me to play the mainsheet and I'm sailing faster with this setup. I also added some 2" plastic tube spacers between the cam cleat and eyestrap fairlead to prevent the mainsheet from cleating while sailing downwind in wild mode. You see this modification on a lot of the top A-class and Tornado sailors boats.

8:1 with the 6 mm mainsheet runs very easily even in the lightest air and has enough purchase that you can trim comfortably and not be forced to cleat it.

Hope this helps.

Bob Hodges

Hi Bob,

Thanks, I think you're right. John P recommended a Harken 2619 + 2654 (40mm Carbo 8:1), which with the 6mm Swiftcord (which I've just found in the UK) should make an effective and simple system...

Thanks to all for your replies; they are appreciated.

All I have to do now is break it to the wife that I want to spend another £200+ on my new boat... :-)

What's the deal WRT VAT if you buy blocks (for example) by mailorder from the US. The blocks I want are $200 in the states plus $50 shipping and £200+ here in the UK!! The US suppliers say that they do not include taxes so... at what point do you pay VAT..? Anybody know..?

I cannot speak to VAT but I have had some recent experience with importing from the US into Canada. Here we have the GST (7%).
I brought a Blade in from Florida by truck. When it arrived it was placed into bond and I had to bail it out by paying my 7% taxes before it would be released to me. A bit costly but relatively easy.
Now due to some flamboozle or other the mainsail had to come from California via UPS. It was shipped via "Warranty repair and return" because I had already paid the taxes when I paid for the boat. Therefore, I had no duty or taxes owing on the sail when it arrived. BUT, the good people at UPS felt it necessary to charge me over $60 to broker the customs paperwork. They wouldn't allow me to self-broker.

So, you will probably receive your blocks with a COD attached for the value of the VAT plus potentially a substantial brokerage fee. You may need to research the shipping options available to you to see if you can minimize or eliminate this onerous fee.
I was informed by UPS that to self-broker, I had to be at the port of entry. When I explained that I managed to do the boat at its destination, not the port of entry, they replied "We don't work that way". When I suggested that I shouldn't be using UPS, they replied that if the sail had been air-shipped to Edmonton, then I may have been able to avoid the brokerage fee. Of course, I probably would have given the airline more than that in increased shipping costs.

You pay VAT at entry into your country, if you have VAT. Often the paperwork and fees costs more than the VAT + customs.
Within the EU I dont think there are any such restrictions.

If I buy stuff from the US, I'll pay: (cost for items + shipping)*1.25 + fees/paperwork. 25%VAT hurts!

If I bring a boat or something worth more than EUR1000 into Norway, I must stop at the border (dont even try to use an unmanned crossing) and pay 25%VAT. If not, they take the equipment and fine you heavily.

Colin, I've bought items in from the US and two things always happen:

1. they take longer to arrive than expected

2. when they do arrive they're accompanied by customs paperwork for the VAT and duty plus a substantial admin fee from the Royal Mail or whoever the carrier is.

Sometimes, even with the fees etc, it can still be cheaper to buy from the US but you have to do your homework to be sure.

Thanks Bob and Wout,
Answers re mainsheet lengths insertion are perfectly understandable and very helpful.
It appears that my 3 mm line is not high enough quality.

Regarding UPS shipping to Canada...they nearly always charge that flat rate $60 brokerage...no matter what $5 thing you are buying!

FedEx and other couriers do not have this fee!

Mike.